Atlantean Government

[saphanibaal]

If/when they do secede, they'll probably need a more stable government than what they have now (also -- my watching's been pretty sporadic; did they ever show us a recognized procedure for what would happen if Weir got, say, pneumonia and was flat on her back for a week?): what sort of model do people think they might go for?

Comments

[aella_irene]

I think a sort of Governing Council, made up of Weir, Sheppard and McKay (as the heads of their respective divisions)as well as Teyla, and the chosen representatives of any other refugee populations they take in.

did they ever show us a recognized procedure for what would happen if Weir got, say, pneumonia and was flat on her back for a week?

My watching's been sporadic as well, but I think they end up with a power struggle.

[mardahin]

It depends what you mean by Weir flat on her back - are you eliminating half the command staff as well? In the case where Sheppard & McKay are also out of the equation, Teyla assumed command of Atlantis (No Man's Land) and certainly seemed at home in the role

[teaphile]

I have this great fic I keep meaning to write

I would read that with great joy. Please, do write it.

[saphanibaal]

Seconded. This sounds almost as fraught and somewhat more amusing than the idea that the remaining Athosians really, really want to genetically diversify their small base population.

[mardahin]

Also: Thank you so much for posting!! Glad to not be the only raised voice in this comm ^_^

I think that they'll probably stick with what's been working for them for as long as they can - it's certainly not stable, but it has the advantage of familiarity and there are clear chains-of-command. The suggestion of a ruling 'council' composed of an administrator, the science head, and the military head (with a side order of "Minister of Pegasus Affairs" or something, i.e. Teyla representing the interests of the various Pegasus Natives affiliated with the city) is certainly workable, and could well be the long term solution.

The trick is if they will go for an internal gov't or if they enter into any kind of serious alliances (which will be a necessity if they're going to, you know, feed themselves for the long haul. As the population grows, there's just no way the occasional trade agreement is going to keep them afloat if they want to expend the majority of their resources on warfare and research). You'd need one or two reasonably (

[saphanibaal]

//The suggestion of a ruling 'council' composed of an administrator, the science head, and the military head (with a side order of "Minister of Pegasus Affairs" or something, i.e. Teyla representing the interests of the various Pegasus Natives affiliated with the city) is certainly workable, and could well be the long term solution.//

This makes sense from an executive standpoint, which has been the main one to concern the expedition so far; but I don't think I've seen much in the way of internal judiciary behavior, and legislation seems to be left to Tellurian bodies (albeit extremely haphazardly enforced in Atlantis ^_^). Obviously both these latter would need rethinking should ties with Earth be dissolved.

//The trick is if they will go for an internal gov't or if they enter into any kind of serious alliances (which will be a necessity if they're going to, you know, feed themselves for the long haul. As the population grows, there's just no way the occasional trade agreement is going to keep them afloat if they want to expend the

[tayawulf]

did they ever show us a recognized procedure for what would happen if Weir got, say, pneumonia and was flat on her back for a week?Twice in the series, we've seen Elizabeth, John and Rodney all off world, at the same time, for an extended period of time, and both times, Teyla seemed to be in charge of Atlantis. Both episodes were season beginners: After Siege 3, EJ&R and Carson are all back on Earth for weeks, and the final scene of that ep seemed to imply that Teyla (and perhaps Zelenka) had been in charge. That set fandom all atwitter, about Earth military under the control of an alien, but people pointed out that Teal'c had been in charge of US military in SG-1 before, so it's not unprecedented for the SG universe. But that was just an implication of Teyla being in charge; it became explicit in this season's opener, No Man's Land. Elizabeth, called back to Earth by the IOA while J&R and Ronon are all missing, openly leaves Teyla in charge. The scene where she is forced to leave immediately is an interesting example of the use

[mardahin]

Some very good points about the nature of government. I like your suggestion of a "one person, one vote" democracy for internal policy - at least the major stuff. You have an initial ratified bill of rights and constitution (or some variant) and then amendments fall under general scrutiny, as well as issues not covered within the initial paperwork. You could even handle a lot of it by EMail, if you wanted to.

[saphanibaal]

I know it's a recognized and relatively stable form of government for small populations, and I still am amused by the thought of Atlantis running itself the same way as my church. (Complete with someone in the back of the meetings reading/doing their own work and keeping half an ear open in case a subject they're actually interested in comes up.)

[tayawulf]

and I still am amused by the thought of Atlantis running itself the same way as my church

hee! or my condo association for that matter. Can't you just see Rodney sitting in the back of the room on the Ancient-equivalent of folding chairs, viciously marking up a research proposal submitted by one of his minions and making snarky remarks about the proceedings, until his agenda item comes up? It'd have to be something big to get him there, like a proposal to open a kindergarten classroom in the same corridor as his favorite lab or something. :)

[teaphile]

Funny, they didn't discuss anything about command issues when Elizabeth was out of it during The Real World. I think Chuck took command while everyone else stood around her bedside and twittered.

Seriously, though, I can't believe that either John or Rodney would want that much responsibility, so I think it would fall to Teyla with input from a council.

[mardahin]

I think that part of it with Real World was that it was supposed to happen during the course of a single day - she wasn't out of action for a week or two, and no one wanted to talk about what happened if she didn't wake up because they didn't want to jinx it (I may be mistaken; that's just the general timeframe I remember). I know in The Long Goodbye Rodney made some serious noises of unhappiness when Caldwell took over (which Caldwell quells by pointing out that it was a military situation and thus civilian leadership was outweighed by military leadership, although he ignores the basic fact-of-life that every situation in Pegasus could be argued a military situation with a little tilting of the head).

Teyla's totally Elizabeth's 2IC in every way that counts; John and/or Rodney would head for the nearest hive ship if they had to face that much additional paperwork on anything resembling a regular basis.

and

Ronon + Paperwork = Bad. Very Bad. Bad With A Big Gun.

to sum up...

[saphanibaal]

So, basically, Teyla functions as Elizabeth's second, but there may or may not be any written procedure that she is de jure next in line, or to whom it would go after her?

Because they almost might want to get that set up BEFORE actual secession -- I vaguely remember the US Constitution delineating this whole laundry list of exactly whom executive power would bounce around should half the capital be laid low with the measles or something, and they didn't have to worry about Wraith or people being unexpectedly stuck offworld in a crisis.

Re: to sum up...

[mardahin]

*Laughs really, really hard at the Measles comment*

I would bet good money (chocolate, coffee, whatever your currency of choice) that Elizabeth's already got a working draft filed away on her computer. She strikes me as the kind of person who would start something like that at 0200 when she can't sleep back in first year when they didn't know Earth was coming back, and continue noodling as situations evolve. Granted, it would need general approval and all, but they'd certainly have a strong framework in place. After all, she's got the experience with heavy-duty documents, she might as well make use of it.

And yeah, Teyla's totally Elizabeth's unofficial/official 2IC. Whether SGC knows/approves/etc is anyone's guess.

[korilian]

We're totally going to find out next season! Technically I think Rodney would be in charge, but I'm leaning towards John going redshirt.