Alright everyone. It's time to leave your review of HBP. Since we've discussed all of the books, feel free to include your assessment of the entire series. Predictions of what you think will happen in HBP are, of course, encouraged.
I'm far more ambivalent after having re-read HBP than I was after my initial read. There are still a lot of moments in the books that I'm fond of, a lot of concepts she introduced that I like, but I think JKR ultimately let us down in the execution. She went back on all of the promises the writing in OotP made to us. Love it or hate it, OotP was a purely character driven book. Harry's emotional state was key to the entire thing, and nearly every precipitating event in the course of the book either flowed from it, or caused an important emotional reaction from Harry that led into other things. Heck, even the shipping in that book tied back into the plot. If Cho hadn't liked Harry, she might not have gone to the DA, and if she hadn't gone Marietta wouldn't have, etc.
HBP had none of that. Harry's emotional state -- if one could even pick one out from the furiously distant and exposition heavy prose -- has nothing to do with the plot. His suspicions play no part in anything until the climax. Does he cause anything to happen because he suspects Draco? No. Do Ron and Hermione disagreeing with him cause anything? No. In PoA and GoF the falling outs amid the trio are direct results of the plot, but that does happen here. There is no interaction between the main characters and the plot, leaving Harry to simply bide his time until May.
The other big problem for me is that HBP left me liking so few of the characters. The reason I've never counted myself as a R/Hr shipper or H/G shipper is not because I couldn't see them happening, or that I fundamentally disagreed with the shipping arguments put forth by those sides. It's because I don't enjoy reading their interactions. I just don't. Fic for either has very rarely been a fun read for me, usually at the expense of megs of character development away from canon (or outright OOC writing) if it is fun. So, yeah. JKR didn't do it any differently from the million and one fics of them that I don't like -- but as this is canon it left me liking the characters less than I had before. Because shipping, ultimately, is about how the characters act when they are around each other. And I don't like how Hermione acts about Ron in HBP, or vice versa. I don't like how Harry acts about Ginny in HBP, or the tiny snippet we see from her side of the relationship. Maybe it's a realistic portrayal of a teenage relationship -- although, having never witnessed such passive-aggressive, jealous, and down right mean behavior among my friends when I was teenager only a couple of years ago, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there isn't one pure ideal of a teenage relationship that you have to mimic in writing -- but I would prefer likability over realism. But my problems with the characters aren't just because of the shipping. Lupin is a doormat. Tonks is a weeping, pathetic shell of herself. No wait, that's shipping, too. Well, if there had been character moments in the book that weren't linked to shipping, maybe that alone would have made me happy.
Shall I not even bother to go into my problems with Dumbledore? Yeah. I gave JKR the benefit of the doubt my first read, always assuming on the next page that Dumbledore would behave more like a character and less like a plot device. That didn't happen, so the only satisfying thing to me about Dumbledore is that he's dead.
I think the series is something of a confused mish mash now. HBP was a big step back from the storytelling of OotP for me, so I can't say I clearly understand where she is going. If the books are supposed to be getting "more mature" what does that mean? The storytelling of HBP is as simplistic as ever, detrimentally so as I think the writing (and the necessities of the plot) shield the characters from the consequences of their actions -- disallowing logical, cleanly written character development. Plotwise I think the whole Horcrux quest is pretty set, and the next book will probably be predicted in a novel length fic or twelve. Writing wise . . . no idea.
... so the only satisfying thing to me about Dumbledore is that he's dead.
Hee hee hee. I am so looking forward to seeing your reaction - if we're both still frequenting common areas of the cyber world in two years time - when Dumbledore comes back in the seventh book!
I have zero imagination, but a few of the post-HBP stories I'm reading have Dumbledore's presence continued via his magical portrait. The painting was noted as being 'asleep' at the end of HBP, wasn't it? I think they're spot-on in their extrapolations ... that's a clear (anvil-sized?) pointer to the probability of it 'waking up' in book #7 to give Harry all the advice he needs ... you know, all that training that Dumbledore should have given him in HBP.
I think I'll cry and/or throw the book against the wall if Dumbledore comes back to life. The portrait . . . well, that's to be expected. It's a godawful plot device -- but hey, at least there's an excuse for it if he's a portrait. There's no reason that JKR would have introduced it if it wasn't going to awaken in the next book. As a memorial, it's redundant since we have the tomb, and she could have shown it in the background in book seven. It's almost a sure bet that it'll awaken. Although I have a fairly desperate hope that it will give advice to someone other Harry. It's such a gruesomely trite, obvious plot device that the only way I can see any life being breathed into it is if the portrait advises Draco -- or falls into Voldemort's hands and unwilling advises him. But, yeah, I say desperate simply because I'm not ready to label my hopes as delusional yet.
Because shipping, ultimately, is about how the characters act when they are around each other. And I don't like how Hermione acts about Ron in HBP, or vice versa. I don't like how Harry acts about Ginny in HBP, or the tiny snippet we see from her side of the relationship.
Hmm, shipping. It made me laugh until I realized that JKR was actually serious.
HBP was a big step back from the storytelling of OotP for me, so I can't say I clearly understand where she is going.
Totally agree; actually this reminds me of one thing I forgot to address in my post...thematically, HBP definitely loses out in comparison to OotP as an installment in the series. Over eighty percent of JKR's plot has hinged on the subject of choices, with the other twenty percent being about rejecting destiny (in a way). And with OotP, precisely because it was so dark, the door was left open for so many possibilities -- I mean, here the good characters were choosing to behave just as rottenly as the bad characters, morality was at an all-time low, and there was potential for temptation; I thought she was showing that we are all the same on a basic, human level, and therefore your choices have nothing to do with what you were born into, or what you were influenced by. And I mean on a more inherent level than "Harry was purposely frightened by the rumors of Slytherin house so that he would get into Gryffindor"; because we've seen that being in Gryffindor doesn't stop you from being morally dubious or being used as a tool any more than being in Slytherin stops you from rebelling against your heritage, or fighting for what you believe in.
Um, JKR might still be going for this angle; but this theme took a heavy blow with Tom Riddle's backstory, no matter how much I might have liked it. Tom was born into madness, therefore he was mad. Yay.
That didn't happen, so the only satisfying thing to me about Dumbledore is that he's dead.
LOL. And there's still his (presumably omniscient) portrait to deal with.
And with OotP, precisely because it was so dark, the door was left open for so many possibilities
Yes, definitely. I think the darkness and agency of the characters is very much an interactive relationship. The characters in OotP had agency, and lacking knowledge, it made everything very uncertain and very scary. In HBP, Harry has knowledge but no agency -- and while that could conceivably lead to an even scarier plot (no matter what he does, it ultimately helps the bad guys) it didn't. There was a sense of surety to everything, that nothing really had consequences and that there was no immediate danger and even if there was, hey, luck'll see you through.
Um, JKR might still be going for this angle; but this theme took a heavy blow with Tom Riddle's backstory, no matter how much I might have liked it. Tom was born into madness, therefore he was mad. Yay
I don't know if she's trying or not anymore, honestly. She could be, and simply be delaying the consequences of the morally ambiguous (at best) actions of the heroes until next book just as she's delaying the redemption of Draco and Snape. But, even if she is delaying those things I think it's very, very bad choice that is undermining the quality of the series as a whole. A story isn't thematically coherent if it's only coherent at the end of the story, instead of all the way through. Maybe JKR has decided that "themes" (just as romance and a multitude of other inappropriate aspects) ought to be played as a mystery too?
And there's still his (presumably omniscient) portrait to deal with.
Despite my dread, I confess that I hope JKR purposefully pointed out that portraits only react with "catch-phrases" to defuse the idea of portrait!Dumbledore as omniscient or somehow integral to the seventh book.
HBP had none of that. Harry's emotional state -- if one could even pick one out from the furiously distant and exposition heavy prose -- has nothing to do with the plot. His suspicions play no part in anything until the climax. Does he cause anything to happen because he suspects Draco? No. Do Ron and Hermione disagreeing with him cause anything? No. In PoA and GoF the falling outs amid the trio are direct results of the plot, but that does happen here. There is no interaction between the main characters and the plot, leaving Harry to simply bide his time until May.
The other big problem for me is that HBP left me liking so few of the characters. The reason I've never counted myself as a R/Hr shipper or H/G shipper is not because I couldn't see them happening, or that I fundamentally disagreed with the shipping arguments put forth by those sides. It's because I don't enjoy reading their interactions. I just don't. Fic for either has very rarely been a fun read for me, usually at the expense of megs of character development away from canon (or outright OOC writing) if it is fun. So, yeah. JKR didn't do it any differently from the million and one fics of them that I don't like -- but as this is canon it left me liking the characters less than I had before. Because shipping, ultimately, is about how the characters act when they are around each other. And I don't like how Hermione acts about Ron in HBP, or vice versa. I don't like how Harry acts about Ginny in HBP, or the tiny snippet we see from her side of the relationship. Maybe it's a realistic portrayal of a teenage relationship -- although, having never witnessed such passive-aggressive, jealous, and down right mean behavior among my friends when I was teenager only a couple of years ago, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there isn't one pure ideal of a teenage relationship that you have to mimic in writing -- but I would prefer likability over realism. But my problems with the characters aren't just because of the shipping. Lupin is a doormat. Tonks is a weeping, pathetic shell of herself. No wait, that's shipping, too. Well, if there had been character moments in the book that weren't linked to shipping, maybe that alone would have made me happy.
Shall I not even bother to go into my problems with Dumbledore? Yeah. I gave JKR the benefit of the doubt my first read, always assuming on the next page that Dumbledore would behave more like a character and less like a plot device. That didn't happen, so the only satisfying thing to me about Dumbledore is that he's dead.
I think the series is something of a confused mish mash now. HBP was a big step back from the storytelling of OotP for me, so I can't say I clearly understand where she is going. If the books are supposed to be getting "more mature" what does that mean? The storytelling of HBP is as simplistic as ever, detrimentally so as I think the writing (and the necessities of the plot) shield the characters from the consequences of their actions -- disallowing logical, cleanly written character development. Plotwise I think the whole Horcrux quest is pretty set, and the next book will probably be predicted in a novel length fic or twelve. Writing wise . . . no idea.
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Hee hee hee. I am so looking forward to seeing your reaction - if we're both still frequenting common areas of the cyber world in two years time - when Dumbledore comes back in the seventh book!
I have zero imagination, but a few of the post-HBP stories I'm reading have Dumbledore's presence continued via his magical portrait. The painting was noted as being 'asleep' at the end of HBP, wasn't it? I think they're spot-on in their extrapolations ... that's a clear (anvil-sized?) pointer to the probability of it 'waking up' in book #7 to give Harry all the advice he needs ... you know, all that training that Dumbledore should have given him in HBP.
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Hmm, shipping. It made me laugh until I realized that JKR was actually serious.
HBP was a big step back from the storytelling of OotP for me, so I can't say I clearly understand where she is going.
Totally agree; actually this reminds me of one thing I forgot to address in my post...thematically, HBP definitely loses out in comparison to OotP as an installment in the series. Over eighty percent of JKR's plot has hinged on the subject of choices, with the other twenty percent being about rejecting destiny (in a way). And with OotP, precisely because it was so dark, the door was left open for so many possibilities -- I mean, here the good characters were choosing to behave just as rottenly as the bad characters, morality was at an all-time low, and there was potential for temptation; I thought she was showing that we are all the same on a basic, human level, and therefore your choices have nothing to do with what you were born into, or what you were influenced by. And I mean on a more inherent level than "Harry was purposely frightened by the rumors of Slytherin house so that he would get into Gryffindor"; because we've seen that being in Gryffindor doesn't stop you from being morally dubious or being used as a tool any more than being in Slytherin stops you from rebelling against your heritage, or fighting for what you believe in.
Um, JKR might still be going for this angle; but this theme took a heavy blow with Tom Riddle's backstory, no matter how much I might have liked it. Tom was born into madness, therefore he was mad. Yay.
That didn't happen, so the only satisfying thing to me about Dumbledore is that he's dead.
LOL. And there's still his (presumably omniscient) portrait to deal with.
Reply
Yes, definitely. I think the darkness and agency of the characters is very much an interactive relationship. The characters in OotP had agency, and lacking knowledge, it made everything very uncertain and very scary. In HBP, Harry has knowledge but no agency -- and while that could conceivably lead to an even scarier plot (no matter what he does, it ultimately helps the bad guys) it didn't. There was a sense of surety to everything, that nothing really had consequences and that there was no immediate danger and even if there was, hey, luck'll see you through.
Um, JKR might still be going for this angle; but this theme took a heavy blow with Tom Riddle's backstory, no matter how much I might have liked it. Tom was born into madness, therefore he was mad. Yay
I don't know if she's trying or not anymore, honestly. She could be, and simply be delaying the consequences of the morally ambiguous (at best) actions of the heroes until next book just as she's delaying the redemption of Draco and Snape. But, even if she is delaying those things I think it's very, very bad choice that is undermining the quality of the series as a whole. A story isn't thematically coherent if it's only coherent at the end of the story, instead of all the way through. Maybe JKR has decided that "themes" (just as romance and a multitude of other inappropriate aspects) ought to be played as a mystery too?
And there's still his (presumably omniscient) portrait to deal with.
Despite my dread, I confess that I hope JKR purposefully pointed out that portraits only react with "catch-phrases" to defuse the idea of portrait!Dumbledore as omniscient or somehow integral to the seventh book.
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