Neville's in the hospital wing, but Madam Pomfrey thinks he'll make a full recovery ... Harry, if we hadn't had your Felix potion, I think we'd all have been killed, but everything seemed to just miss us -
This is what happens when you don't share your Felix Felecis around with all your mates, Harry! As cadesama pointed out, poor Neville! Excellent. I wish JKR had never thought up the stuff, horrible when liquid deus ex machina potions just pop into the story this far into a series. On the other hand, maybe she can drink some when penning book #7 ... sorry, sorry!
Good point about the cursed wounds ... maybe Fenrir is the first ever werewolf to revert to such animal behaviour while still human?
Fawkes' lament was a good touch, added to the poignancy of the scene.
You know, I initially thought the whole Fleur/Molly thing was pretty corny and didn't fit in at all well, but I take it back - I think Fleur's dialogue is written well here and it works OK. Wouldn't have wanted it to go any longer, though.
The whole Tonks/Lupin thing though ... ugh. I didn't want to believe that a strong Auror could be so completely demoralised/demolished by simple unrequited lurve. The impact of that discovery just added to the 'Days of our Lives' stigma of the dialogue. Didn't like it much at all.
As far as the werewolf wounds, I could posture that it is because magic or the curse was used outside its normal parameters; as we've seen in Potions and other spells, it can go horribly askew. Just a guess, I've given up on the little details within the series myself.
In reply to this by madderbrad: The whole Tonks/Lupin thing though ... ugh. I didn't want to believe that a strong Auror could be so completely demoralised/demolished by simple unrequited lurve. The impact of that discovery just added to the 'Days of our Lives' stigma of the dialogue. Didn't like it much at all.
Yes, well, that's what a lot of us have been saying about the romances in general, not just H/G, but we seem to lose our credibility just because we ship H/Hr. It isn't about our preference at all, it's about the quality of writing in that particular subplot. It's....sub-par.
Yes, well, that's what a lot of us have been saying about the romances in general, not just H/G, but we seem to lose our credibility just because we ship H/Hr. It isn't about our preference at all, it's about the quality of writing in that particular subplot. It's....sub-par.
It kinda sucks that everything in the HP fandom seems to rotate on the axis of shipping, but I gotta tell you, I'm neither a R/Hr shipper nor a H/Hr shipper and I agree with you. I think the romance needed to flow from the characterization, and most of them seemed tacked on in the book. It was just something JKR was doing to add to the "realism," but not because we'd witnessed the development of the relationships in dialogue and scenes between the characters. I think the R/T thing would have been alright if we hadn't already gotten an H/G relationship that was almost scandalously short on development, the incredibly shallow R/Lav sub-plot, and the shrill, unpleasant R/Hr "tension." I don't expect Harry to keep track of the personal lives of the adults, but the faux!red herring of Tonks's behavior through out the book and R/T explanation just seemed like too much at this point.
I think the romance needed to flow from the characterization, and most of them seemed tacked on in the book.
SO much word. It needs to be pointed out that both H/G and R/T were handled similarly --> and really in this aspect, H/G was merely a stretched-out version of R/T. R/Hr escapes criticism on this particular point, but the similarity between R/T and H/G is that they were handled the way JKR handles her plot points. You know, dropping little hints and clues througout the text before the climax hits: ie, mentioning Sirius in PS, and having him appear in PoA; mentioning the Lovegoods in GoF before introducing Luna in OotP; even mentioning Ginny's abstract behaviour throughout CoS before revealing her to be the Heir of Slytherin's channel.
And these are all fine, even fascinating, when handling a mystery plot; but not a romance plot, that involves the actual characterizations of the characters, and depends heavily on stong dynamic between the characters. It just does. NOT. WORK. Whether dropping hints of Ginny's symbolic chocolate connection, or Ron's "find someone better", or Tonks looking depressed and forlorn...it doesn't work. Romance can't be handled as a mystery plot, because a successful literary romance shouldn't be a mystery to over half the fandom until it's "solved" when the characters end up together; no one wants to read this, we want to read the how and the why of their getting together. In literature, a pairing shouldn't make sense simply when they get together; it shold also make sense because of their getting together.
And the only difference between H/G and R/T, aside from the characters themselves (who at this stage are little more than plot devices within their own romances) is that the "clues" were dropped throughout the series with H/G, whereas R/T only had this one book.
I totally agree, and I think that even R/Hr was treated, to a degree, as a mystery plot, much to its detriment. Why else drag them through the mud for a whole book, hardly even talking to each other, when they could be working their differences out? Why else totally ignore the chance during OotP's Christmas chapter to show Hermione's empathy for Ron and her reaction to his gift of perfume? JKR dodged multiple chances for illuminating Hermione's feelings, as well as the positive side of their relationship, to keep it "ambiguous." So that, what, when we look back on OotP and GoF we know for sure that Hermione's nasty words to Ron are definitely a sign of jealousy? Like you, I think that relationship should make sense as we go along, not merely in retrospect. Ambiguity and mystery can be fun, but to play all romances on that angle just seems bizarre.
"clues" were dropped throughout the series with H/G, whereas R/T only had this one book.
Ahh, H/G clues. Such as Ginny's existence, of course. Seriously though, there is another similarity. To all appearances, Ginny's entire personality in CoS is a red herring, just as Tonks's is in HBP.
Yeah, R/Hr was also handled in the same way as the other two pairings, although the reason it doesn't bother me nearly as much as the other two is because, their pre-existing friendship aside, at least their clues have to deal with some semblance of feeling and/or reaction to each other. At least we can look back and be able to point out jealousy when it's revealed that Hermione likes Ron; and we can look back and point out instances of Ron's crush. We can point out clues through their interactions with each other (as opposed to in spite of their interactions), even though JKR's trying to drag it out in as lengthy a manner as she possibly can.
Oh, I thought it was obvious, too. I just thought it'd turn out to be more interesting. JKR ignored the Christmas OotP opportunity to expand on the relationship -- which left me thinking she was deliberately creating ambiguity about Hermione's feelings so that she could set up conflict for the relationship from that direction. Turns out she was being ambiguous simply to string the reader along, not because it would amount to anything. I think that sort of meta-textual writing is annoying at best, and sloppy at worst.
You know, I initially thought the whole Fleur/Molly thing was pretty corny and didn't fit in at all well, but I take it back
Same with me. On second reading it made me cry, sob! The serious life and death sort of love of Bill/Fleur and Lupin/Tonks puts the schoolboy/girl crushes into perspective...
Well, as you may have read here, I don't think much oft the Lupin/Tonks moment; too much like a (bad) soap opera. I felt embarassed for Remus. And I'm incredulous that a supposedly strong witch/auror like Tonks, full of life in OotP, should have been so totally incapacitated due to Remus's spurning her advances.
But Fleur/Bill; yeah. I think I and others here were let down by the characterisation/performances of our 'heroes', and included in that I think is the way the female Weasleys ostracised/ridiculed Fleur (and in a cowardly manner, too). When I first read this chapter I was pretty peeved over the book as a whole and so pooh-poohed their reconciliation. I still think it's pretty predictable, but on a second perusal it comes over better than I'd originally thought.
I seem to remember thinking, "Uh?" when L/T was revealed on first read, and then, "Oh, so that's what it was all about." As a sub-plot it seemed not fully-formed. But I don't mind the soap opera outburst. The very idea that Lupin should deny their love for Tonks's own good!
Oh come on, the piss-taking of Fleur was great fun and served her right, the caricature snotty French git!
I think the Felix Felecis potion wasn’t so bad. Sure, it’s making things way to easy, but at least this time there’s a reason why some kids can successfully fight the DEs
So why can't/don't the DEs take some as well, to level the playing field? If the FF potion was so useful in a fight, it should be part of the regular arsenal for both sides, like any other curse or hex. And if it's so useful we should have known about it from way back in the series.
What’s wrong with those girls?
Easiest answer, courtesy of Occam's Razor? They were written badly!?
This is what happens when you don't share your Felix Felecis around with all your mates, Harry! As cadesama pointed out, poor Neville! Excellent. I wish JKR had never thought up the stuff, horrible when liquid deus ex machina potions just pop into the story this far into a series. On the other hand, maybe she can drink some when penning book #7 ... sorry, sorry!
Good point about the cursed wounds ... maybe Fenrir is the first ever werewolf to revert to such animal behaviour while still human?
Fawkes' lament was a good touch, added to the poignancy of the scene.
You know, I initially thought the whole Fleur/Molly thing was pretty corny and didn't fit in at all well, but I take it back - I think Fleur's dialogue is written well here and it works OK. Wouldn't have wanted it to go any longer, though.
The whole Tonks/Lupin thing though ... ugh. I didn't want to believe that a strong Auror could be so completely demoralised/demolished by simple unrequited lurve. The impact of that discovery just added to the 'Days of our Lives' stigma of the dialogue. Didn't like it much at all.
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In reply to this by madderbrad:
The whole Tonks/Lupin thing though ... ugh. I didn't want to believe that a strong Auror could be so completely demoralised/demolished by simple unrequited lurve. The impact of that discovery just added to the 'Days of our Lives' stigma of the dialogue. Didn't like it much at all.
Yes, well, that's what a lot of us have been saying about the romances in general, not just H/G, but we seem to lose our credibility just because we ship H/Hr. It isn't about our preference at all, it's about the quality of writing in that particular subplot. It's....sub-par.
Reply
It kinda sucks that everything in the HP fandom seems to rotate on the axis of shipping, but I gotta tell you, I'm neither a R/Hr shipper nor a H/Hr shipper and I agree with you. I think the romance needed to flow from the characterization, and most of them seemed tacked on in the book. It was just something JKR was doing to add to the "realism," but not because we'd witnessed the development of the relationships in dialogue and scenes between the characters. I think the R/T thing would have been alright if we hadn't already gotten an H/G relationship that was almost scandalously short on development, the incredibly shallow R/Lav sub-plot, and the shrill, unpleasant R/Hr "tension." I don't expect Harry to keep track of the personal lives of the adults, but the faux!red herring of Tonks's behavior through out the book and R/T explanation just seemed like too much at this point.
Reply
SO much word. It needs to be pointed out that both H/G and R/T were handled similarly --> and really in this aspect, H/G was merely a stretched-out version of R/T. R/Hr escapes criticism on this particular point, but the similarity between R/T and H/G is that they were handled the way JKR handles her plot points. You know, dropping little hints and clues througout the text before the climax hits: ie, mentioning Sirius in PS, and having him appear in PoA; mentioning the Lovegoods in GoF before introducing Luna in OotP; even mentioning Ginny's abstract behaviour throughout CoS before revealing her to be the Heir of Slytherin's channel.
And these are all fine, even fascinating, when handling a mystery plot; but not a romance plot, that involves the actual characterizations of the characters, and depends heavily on stong dynamic between the characters. It just does. NOT. WORK. Whether dropping hints of Ginny's symbolic chocolate connection, or Ron's "find someone better", or Tonks looking depressed and forlorn...it doesn't work. Romance can't be handled as a mystery plot, because a successful literary romance shouldn't be a mystery to over half the fandom until it's "solved" when the characters end up together; no one wants to read this, we want to read the how and the why of their getting together. In literature, a pairing shouldn't make sense simply when they get together; it shold also make sense because of their getting together.
And the only difference between H/G and R/T, aside from the characters themselves (who at this stage are little more than plot devices within their own romances) is that the "clues" were dropped throughout the series with H/G, whereas R/T only had this one book.
Reply
"clues" were dropped throughout the series with H/G, whereas R/T only had this one book.
Ahh, H/G clues. Such as Ginny's existence, of course. Seriously though, there is another similarity. To all appearances, Ginny's entire personality in CoS is a red herring, just as Tonks's is in HBP.
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Same with me. On second reading it made me cry, sob! The serious life and death sort of love of Bill/Fleur and Lupin/Tonks puts the schoolboy/girl crushes into perspective...
Reply
But Fleur/Bill; yeah. I think I and others here were let down by the characterisation/performances of our 'heroes', and included in that I think is the way the female Weasleys ostracised/ridiculed Fleur (and in a cowardly manner, too). When I first read this chapter I was pretty peeved over the book as a whole and so pooh-poohed their reconciliation. I still think it's pretty predictable, but on a second perusal it comes over better than I'd originally thought.
Reply
Oh come on, the piss-taking of Fleur was great fun and served her right, the caricature snotty French git!
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(The comment has been removed)
So why can't/don't the DEs take some as well, to level the playing field? If the FF potion was so useful in a fight, it should be part of the regular arsenal for both sides, like any other curse or hex. And if it's so useful we should have known about it from way back in the series.
What’s wrong with those girls?
Easiest answer, courtesy of Occam's Razor? They were written badly!?
Reply
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