Chapter 23 - Horcruxes

[cheeringcharm]

After a throw-away scene with the Fat Lady and Nearly Headless Nick, Harry runs up to Dumblegod's office to give him Slughorn's memory. They journey into the pensieve and see the same memory as before, this time with substance instead of mist. Turns out Slughorn did tell Riddle about horcruxes and how they are created. Riddle is most interested in

Comments

[madderbrad]

Like everyone else here so far, I bemoan the complete waste of the prophecy, that which was the climax of OotP, as annearchy and others have said. What a shocking, horrible, terrible *waste* of what I thought at the end of OotP was a brilliant mechanism to really pull out the stops and generate some excellent passion and drama out of the last two books. Instead the revelation of the prophecy to his best friends way back (as I commented here then) was just a damp squib, all this 'Chosen One' nonsense belittles and dilutes the whole impact/power of the prophecy anyway, and this pontification by 'Dumblegod' (heh!) puts the nail in the coffin. The sound you heard back around the 16th July was that of millions of jaws gaping open in stunned belief as we read this chapter and thought "what the hell was the point of the prophecy in the first place and Voldemort's desperate attempts to know it if it can be ignored anyway?".

I've forgotten the exact details of how Dumbledore came up with 'seven'. Is that number necessarily locked down as the ONLY number of soul fragments that Tom would make, or is it just a guess? Why not eight, or eighty-eight? Is there anything stopping Voldemort from continuing? Any 'hard' limits or *facts*, other than Dumbledore's (wishful?) supposition? And like cadesama says, one would imagine that Voldemort would be keeping track of the parts of his soul hidden around the country. What's to stop him creating more? A simplistic author who doesn't want to worry about additional complexity to the plot?

[cadesama]

It's seven because Tom pressed the point that seven is a particularly magical number in the memory. You could argue that it's the whole reason that Harry had to get the memory, but I think that's it's unlikely that Dumbledore didn't already suspect that Riddle fixated on the number seven if it's considered a powerful number. The memory was confirmation only, not revelation.

Nothing would stop Voldemort except for his weird fixation, unless the soul is actually finite. Which, uh, I guess it could be, since the number of Horcruxes made seems to correlate positively with the change in Voldemort's feature -- but that could easily be a specious correlation. But, if it is finite, then Voldemort shouldn't be able to replace the lost ones, and ought to be freaking out about losing his Horcruxes. Which he doens't seem to be doing. So, yeah, that's weird.

[woman_ironing]

I don't think the prophecy hasn't been discounted. It's just complicated.

It's the whole fate/free will thing in one: Whatever the details or constraints of any situation I may find myself in, what I do is my choice and my responsibility. Terrifyingly, this is so even if my situation is hopeless and my choices limited.

With or without the prophecy, there is Voldemort and there is Harry, and whether they come up against each other or not is up to them. But as it is, the prophecy is vital because Voldemort's reaction to the bit he heard of it created the situation Harry finds himself in. The whole prophecy describes the situation Harry finds himself in, but it's up to Harry to decide what to do about it - about the situation, that is, not the prophecy.

[cheeringcharm]

It's the whole fate/free will thing in one:

But, she discounts Harry's free will when she says that Voldemort is going to hunt Harry down no matter what he does. Harry's going to have to do it (Kill Voldemort) whether he wants to or not. Harry is deciding to go on the Offensive against Voldemort instead of being on the Defensive. There's no free will here. Harry lost his choice when Voldemort went to Godric's Hollow.

[woman_ironing]

Harry can't choose for Voldemort not to exist any more than he can choose for rain or cold or houseflies not to exist. He can choose what to do in the situation he finds himself in, the situation of being hunted by Voldemort. It's the same for all of us, except Voldemort's not after us.

I've always thought Harry should just sail off to New Zealand with Frodo.

oops

[woman_ironing]

Sorry, that should be: I don't think the prophecy has been discounted.
Doh.

[madderbrad]

It's just complicated.

I guess I'm too simple to get it :-(

I don't know. I've read so many fan fiction stories which have done such marvellous things with the prophecy, pulling it apart, using it in different ways, that it was a real real REAL letdown to read Dumbledore's masterful analysis of it here, which could maybe be summarised simply as -- "M'eh, don't worry about it". I can either blame JKR or all those fan fiction authors who got my hopes up; it's easier for me to pick the former. I'm lazy as well as simple, I guess.

I'm glad you liked/appreciated Dumbledore's point of view, and when I force myself to re-read HBP I'm going to pay special attention to this part, as well as some of the other themes that this chapter-a-day analysis has brought to my attention.

[woman_ironing]

From Dumbledore's point of view isn't the most important thing that Harry should understand his situation, because if he does he has the best chance of dealing with it? And this conversation with Dumbledore is the point where Harry does understand his situation. Yes, there's the prophecy; yes, there's Voldemort, but Harry's decisions are his; he's not the prophecy's or Voldemort's puppet (or Dumbledore's!). Like Harry says, it's 'the difference between being dragged into the arena to face a battle to the death and walking into the arena with your head held high.'

It's very funny that Voldemort discovered one of the truths about prophecies: if you want to guarantee a prophecy will come true, simply try to do something to thwart it!