HP & the Order of the Phoenix

[abigail89]

Chapter 14: Percy and PadfootA most appropriate title for this chapter. But before Percy and Padfoot invade, Harry has to write a letter to ask for Sirius's advice about his scar and Umbridge. In the owlery, he meets Cho Chang in probably the first substantial encounter they have as a budding "couple." Harry is a bundle of nerves and blank of

Comments

[abigail89]

Sirius is displeased, and comments, "You're less like your father than I thought. . . The risk would've been what made it fun for James." (UK paper ed, 273).

Yeah, but James didn't have to deal with twelve years of absence and the Dursleys, did he? *rolls eyes*

I think it fascinating that JKR has Sirius being totally clueless about Harry's life thus far. He's had the Weasleys, Remus and Dumbledore stay at the house with him, and yet, he seems to have very little backstory on his godson. Yes, he's been in prison, but with everything that's happened to him and those around him, you'd think she would give Sirius a little more maturity.

[whimsicalmuse]

Yes, he's been in prison, but with everything that's happened to him and those around him, you'd think she would give Sirius a little more maturity.

Sirius' little cut at Harry about being less like his father leaves me seething everytime I read it. Sirius was so ineffectual as a godfather in the fifth book! Sirius appeared to me to become pretty self involved in OotP, and I guess I can see some of it, due to his circumstances, but he seemed to be holding a pity party for himself a lot of the time. Very few of the adults in Harry's life were what he needed for them to be in this book.

[ladymela99]

Was this the chapter with the potion class beginning? I still say there was something wrong with Sirius in this book he is so different than how he was even in the other two books.

[whimsicalmuse]

This chapt. begins with Harry composing his letter to Snuffles. I have heard other speculation that Sirius was being poisoned, and there is a scene in this book where Harry's trying to learn about a potion and keeps falling asleep. The potion he's trying to study has to do with causing a person to be angry and act in irrational ways, but I can't find the reference yet. Will keep looking...

[cheeringcharm]

I don't see Sirius as acting that different, truth be told. For one thing, this is the first extensive charactarization we get of him. For almost the entirety of PoA he is a madman, a killer, the betrayer of Harry's parents. It is only in the little exchange he and Harry have while walking through the tunnel back to Hogwarts that we get a glimpse of his character. A very small glimpse, let's remember.

Then in GoF, we see his head in the fire a few times, read a couple of letters from him then he's in DD's office, the third party to a two party conversation. What he shows is concern for Harry, which he continue to shows in OotP.

I think what we are seeing in OotP is the full Sirius, not the image the wizarding world has (PoA) or the rose colored glasses that Harry sees him through (GoF). Sirius is self-absorbed and reckless. It doesn't seem all that different of a charactarization than JKR shows us in the pensieve scene.

[annearchy]

I think what we are seeing in OotP is the full Sirius, not the image the wizarding world has (PoA) or the rose colored glasses that Harry sees him through (GoF). Sirius is self-absorbed and reckless. It doesn't seem all that different of a charactarization than JKR shows us in the pensieve scene.

Nice analysis. Every book seems to provide a bit more depth about each character, as Harry learns a few more pieces of the various puzzles he's dealing with. I'm not too surprised that Sirius, despite being in his mid-30s, is still self-absorbed and reckless. He spent 13 years in Azkaban, beginning in his early 20s, and that couldn't have helped him mature, since it was all he could do just to keep from going insane. I suppose it's surprising that Sirius isn't overtly mentally ill after what he experienced there.

[abigail89]

But later on when Harry talks to him and Remus (I think it's near the end) he seems to be calmer and, dare I say it?, a bit happier.

Perhaps she's just writing a wildly manic Sirius, which isn't good for Harry at all. The poor boy needs stability in his life, and Sirius ain't the source. Which is why I have major problems reading this book.

Maybe I just need to get a life. :-)

[whimsicalmuse]

You're right, he seemed happier then, being with Remus, and recalling "the good ol' days". I think Hermione was right in saying how lonely he's been, but I want for at least one adult in Harry's life to be able to hold it together and give him the parental-type relationship that he needs. Maybe Lupin will be the one, but who knows, with all his problems? Maybe the Weasleys, but there are issues there, too.

You have a life, dear lady. This is just one of the playgrounds. :)

[cadesama]

I think it fascinating that JKR has Sirius being totally clueless about Harry's life thus far.

With the kid's gloves that the Order seems to treat Sirius with, it makes a good deal of sense that they wouldn't tell Sirius how badly Harry's childhood would. He'd just freak out and try to rescue Harry, "endangering" himself and Harry in the process.

Yes, he's been in prison, but with everything that's happened to him and those around him, you'd think she would give Sirius a little more maturity.

But trauma doesn't mature people. It doesn't create strength. Moving on from trauma, learning how to deal with it, that can create strength. But Sirius never had the chance to do that on the run because being on the run conveniently allowed him to run from the trauma as well. I wish Sirius could act more maturely, but when you stick a messed up, somewhat spoiled twenty two year old in prison for twelve years -- after he loses the most important people in his life and has a mental breakdown -- you really can't expect maturity.

[abigail89]

You may be right, but in GoF, Sirius acts much more responsibly in telling Harry to stay safe, etc. Even at the beginning of the book, he tells Harry to stay put at the Dursleys' so he must have some inkling of what's going on with his godson.

Perhaps Sirius wants to act irresponsibly himself, not actually getting Harry into trouble or putting him in harm's way.

No, my quibble is that the Sirius in this chapter doesn't seem to ring true. I know he's been cooped up for a while in a house he despises, but since he knows that Harry is th"secret weapon" surely he would advise Harry to not try anything that would put him into danger.

[cadesama]

Even at the beginning of the book, he tells Harry to stay put at the Dursleys' so he must have some inkling of what's going on with his godson.

He probably got told what most of the Order was told -- that Harry is safe when he's with his relatives. I doubt most of them know about the specifics. Dumbledore is very economical with information that way, and he can be, since most of his followers believe whatever he says without question. Sirius, probably didn't, but couldn't win an arguments to get Harry out early since he didn't know enough about Harry's situation.

I know he's been cooped up for a while in a house he despises, but since he knows that Harry is th"secret weapon" surely he would advise Harry to not try anything that would put him into danger.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I don't think this situation puts Harry into any danger, at all. The only one at risk is Sirius, who is as careless about his own life as Harry is. So I don't see the conflict. Sirius lived in a cave to be closer to Harry, because he doesn'

[lockedsomewhere]

Hello! I thought I'd jump in!

I think it's simple. Sirius is tired of taking orders. At the end of this chapter, he's now taking orders from Harry.

That whole passage is odd. It seems like Harry is acting like the godfather and Sirius is the child. Sirius does display a low level of maturity in this scene. (What kind of mature father-figure insults their godchild?)

concerned!Harry: STAY! (pun intended? hmm... :P)
displeased!Sirius: NO!
concerned!Harry: It's for your safety!
displeased!Sirius: I don't care!
And instead of saying, "You're not my father! You can't tell me what to do!" We have "You're not like your father! I can't goad you into doing stupid, mischievious things!"

Well, we know how this plays out at the end, don't we?