Bwahaha. Didn't he say somewhere how he pictured the Master off shagging someone in a bathroom or something before his confrontation with Ten? I mean what even RTD. I am not disapproving, but srsly. lol.
I was spoiled for all of the episodes Rose was in, but I have no rational thought when it comes to parts of that plotline. I flailed so hard.
I cannot even deal with the Ten/Donna BFF OTP relationship because I love it so much and there's no way to fix it, and yeah okay, they're both fine now but not really and she was in so much of EOT that I wanted JUST ONE BIT OF HER YELLING AT TEN. Even if she had to go back to forgetting. :(
One of my favorite lines, ever of Doctor Who is, "But really do you think I'd leave my best friend alone without a defense mechanism?"
BECAUSE AWWWWWWWWWWWWW. :( :( :( :(
I do as well. Especially after finding out that it wasn't me that was so offended by fic like that. But TBF, most of the newer stuff is Cloen-friendly. Although now I wince whenever I see Rose refer to him as "John" to people that I think she should refer to him as "the Doctor" in front of. HE IS THE DOCTOR. ARGH.
LOL WHAT? MAYBE? I DUNNO I HAVE NOT HEARD THAT BUT LOL @ IT, especially since at this poitn everyone was a Master clone.
she was in so much of EOT that I wanted JUST ONE BIT OF HER YELLING AT TEN. Even if she had to go back to forgetting. :(
I KNOW :( AND THE CLIFFHANGER WAS SO MEAN BECAUSE IT WAS ALL ":O DONNA'S REMEMBERING" AND I WAS LIKE "YESSSSS" and then she FELL ASLEEP which incidentally, Ten, is THE WORST defense mechanism WTF. She was just passed out in an alleyway on a planet full of Master clones. D: But I am kind of intrigued by the implication that she's not ~fully human anymore (since she didn't turn into a Master clone).
Donna is the only fix-it fic I've ever written, lol.ENDLESS TRAGEDY.
YES "JOHN" IS AN INSTANT BACK-BUTTON FOR ME.Also, while I agree that there would be a rough adjustment period immediately after JE, I'm always surprised by fics that have him like, strike off on his own~ to ~find himself~ or whatever before eventually he and Rose get back together. I totally buy that there'd be awkwardness and stuff, but I cannot fathom him leaving her. I am pretty sure he'd be clinging to her like a lifeboat.
Ok. Going to find it. Ah! Found it in The Bible of RTD:
"So, I think the Master should disguise himself. He could dye his hair blond. In a public toilet. He's scrubbing away at the sink. That puts in mind an Ortonesque post-watershed scene where the Master is dying his hair like a rent boy, and a smart businessman comes in cruising, and the Maste takes him into a cubicle, and murders him. Maybe after sex. That won't happen, fo obvious reasons, but I thought of it anyway. Why do I think of things that will never happen?"
I was intrigued by that as well! I mean, it's not ever going to be explored now, but it does leave some interesting possibilities for fic. Or 2013. You know. I feel like after 2013 happens or doesn't happen how I want it, I'm going to have to deal with the fact that all these things that I want to happen are probably never going to happen. :(
Me wanting Donna yelling at Ten just one more time is so high up there on the list of my DW needs that need to be fulfilled.
If the fic is either short enough or interesting enough, I can mentally substitute. However, I'm still so bothered, it is usually not as fun to read.
Oh, this is from your previous comment, but NEVER "I don't love you angst". See, the thing I like about your angst is that it's usually based on the opposite, the fact that they love each other too much. Or outside forces. Or just normal stuff that doesn't cause people to run off to Brazil. And yes, I see lots of awkward, desperate, confused clingyness during those first few weeks. Then normal clingyness.
The only way I could see him leaving her would be Rose kicking him out, which I could see way before the other way around. But even then, the circumstances would be insane. IDK Cloen reminds me a kicked puppy at times, which I think can be pretty accurate.
LOLOLOL THAT IS AMAZING god one day I will read my copy of Writer's Tale and it will be amazing.
LOL I think fandom as a whole is going to set itself up for disappointment in 2013, ngl. I'm trying not to think about it because I don't want to be one of the ones disappointed, LIRL
Fix-its for me need to work within canon. So I guess maybe they don't coutn as actual fix-its. It's not so much 'fix it' as it is 'make myself feel better about it' fic, I guess.
Yeah I'm way more interested in outside-forces angst. It works that way in canons, too. I can't care about a ship if the reason they're not together is because they hate each other half the time, or whatever. But "us against the world!" is more appealing to me.
I imagine Rose being the distant one in the first bit after JE. I sort of feel like she would flip-flop between accepting him as the Doctor and not really wanting anything to do with him because she is confused and angry with Ten and whatnot. But I imagine him just kind of waiting patiently ("patiently" here meaning "without saying anything but while secretly panicking") and resisting the urge to just permanently latch himself onto her leg.
I could only see him leaving her for the usual sanctimonious ~it's for the best~ reasons, but even then it would have to be something really extreme. Frances and I didn't even think he could manage it in Evil Sweden, so idk. I could see him running out on her if she got pregnant, which is sort of an unpopular opinion unless you are me or Frances, but even still that situation is so horrifically sad and awful to me that I would probably never write it, lol.
I've actually only read about 100 pages of it. I think I then had to go eat dinner or something and just didn't pick it up again. It reads really easily and it super interesting. In the first 100 pages, I learned that Catherine Tate saved my version of the show because RTD was planning on introducing a new character that the Doctor would fall in love with, because he "missed writing the Doctor in love". Which is sweet, but at that point he knew Billie was coming back, so I was just confused. But then Catherine was interested, so he brought Donna back and now anything else would be unacceptable.
It's not so much 'fix it' as it is 'make myself feel better about it' fic, I guess.
Yes. Immediately after I watched, I needed actual fixit fic, where dying!Ten goes back into Cloen's body or something so that EVERYONE IS HAPPY. But now I've just gotten over a lot of it and I am sorta okay with Ten dying. I just go off and read Rose and Cloen stories.
Oh pretty much everything you described about Rose in the days post-JE is pretty much how I see her. The Doctor would have no choice but to just wait and silently panic.
If he couldn't manage it in Evil Sweden (is that what you guys call that fic?) or Blood and Anger and Revenge (where it wouldn't make sense because he already was without her) then IDK.
I could see him running out on her if she got pregnant
:O Maybe for like a day? Or two? Three? EEEK. It's not like Rose did it all by herself. Awwww. Poor Rose.
Like I am actually very neutral about Cloen/Rose babies, but I can't figure out if a lot of it is my desire to see Ten/DT with a child.
I skimmed the bits about Penny when I first got the book but I totally missed the love plotline omg dnw. TY CATHERINE TATE, NATIONAL HERO ETC.
rofl yes "Evil Sweden" was our working title for a long time. We tend to pick titles at the very last possible second, so in the meantime they have working titles that end up living on in my heart. We've been working on one called "Octopus" for like ....six months.
:O Maybe for like a day? Or two? Three? EEEK. It's not like Rose did it all by herself. Awwww. Poor Rose.
I think he has too many issues to want children (as discussed and then exacerbated by The Doctor's Daughter), and I think he would panic if presented with that reality, and his reaction when he panics is usually to flee, so that's what I think he would do. lol there's this like whole never-to-be-written fic in my head about it but the tl;dr version is that he would think he was doing the right thing~ because he has a tendency to blow up his children, and then eventually that would be compounded by guilt and fear and cowardice which would keep him away. I would never write this because it is TOO TERRIBLE but that is sort of how I imagine things happening if they had kids, which is why I am so NO DNW NO KIDS OMG NO. I'm pretty sure Remus and Tonks left me scarred for life.
Like I am actually very neutral about Cloen/Rose babies, but I can't figure out if a lot of it is my desire to see Ten/DT with a child.
LOL I am so staunchly against Doctor/Rose babies because I think it's OOC, but I kind of hate myself for how sexy I think it is when a guy is good with kids. I don't even like kids and I don't particularly see myself wanting them, so I assume it is an unstoppable evolutionary thing, which is why I hate it. But like, idk, that is what Tony Tyler is for.
Yeah, there was this whole thing about how RTD was like oh, he sees this girl and it's like both hearts - BAM! I was reading and was like NOOOOO RT WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO ME.
Octopus sounds very thrilling.
Very interesting with all your Doctor and children thoughts. I can definitely see where you're coming.
I hate when the pregnancy/children are used as an obvious plot point to an annoying level, but if it's there I usually get excited. I CANNOT RESIST ADORABLE Dad!Cloen/Ten/David. I have gotten too much enjoyment out of Jim & Pam's baby and JKras holding that thing.
LOL That is so weird to fathom and so awkward. Ty Catherine Tate for your great service to humanity.
LIRL Poor Octopus. I hope it gets finished some day.
I mean, I can see why that is not ever what happens in babyfic, because even I don't want to write it. But it's also like... what I see happening with my conception of the characters, so a) I don't want them to have babies and b) them having babies in other people's fic is hard for me to read because it goes against how I see the characters.
Plus kids are had to write, so even though it can be cute I don't write Tony often.
I KNOW. After I read that bit, I dramatically declared that Catherine Tate was my favorite person ever.
I get it. Like it's just so part of your head canon that it's weird for you to read it? And hard for you to accept the fic then? Bad example, but it drives me INSANE when for some reason Cloen likes wearing black leather jackets and sweaters. UM WHAT? Like fine he's not in suits at all times, but now he's just Nine? No, just don't do that. But it's so a part of my head canon, I am confused when other people see SUCH AN OBVIOUS thing that way.
IKR? she gave me the glory that is Donna Noble AND she aborted Ten/Penny before it started.
YEAH basically. Like Cloen and Rose with babies is as weird and DNW for me as him suddenly calling himself John Smith. OR DRESSING LIKE NINE. IF HE WANTED TO DRESS LIKE NINE, HE HAD AN ENTIRE TARDIS WARDROBE AT HIS DISPOSAL. BUT HE PICKED UP THE BLUE SUIT. lol I also imagine he just wears suits every day, ngl. This is partly because, let's be honest, suits are hot, and partly because he is just weird like that. I imagine he owns more than one suit, but still. Suits ahoy.
I BET YOU SHE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW ALL OF THE DOCTOR/ROSE SHIPPERS SHE SAVED.
YES. And I need Cloen being weird/a shitty human on a daily basis. It's just such a huge part of how I see Ten, and therefore, see Cloen being in that situation. I am so unbelievably picky about my preference of alien-ness versus human-ness in Cloen.
I basically imagine that other than the Doctor not really getting any, he is basically Barney Stinson's role model. Suits FTW.
lol me too. He has to be a little bit off, Ten always was. It's no fun if he's just magically human. Also I don't know why Rose would be okay with just like... replacing... Ten with someone who looks like Ten and wears jeans but calls himself John Smith and wants to work at a bank. This is also why Rose/Random David Tennant Character freaks me out.
lol he probably even wears suit pajamas like Barney.
Yeah, I'm still not sure what RTD was smoking. Because like I said, at the same time he was talking about Penny, he was going on about how many episodes Billie was going to be back and talking about Cloen. I mean, I assume this Doctor/Penny love wouldn't be that epic, but it still seemed like a pretty legit thing. It would have been super lame if Rose would have gotten back to find Ten making out with Penny or whatever.
I do not ship Rose/David Tennant, as much as that now sounds appealing. I ship Rose and this mysterious alien who calls himself the Doctor. That's who I want to read about.
I was spoiled for all of the episodes Rose was in, but I have no rational thought when it comes to parts of that plotline. I flailed so hard.
I cannot even deal with the Ten/Donna BFF OTP relationship because I love it so much and there's no way to fix it, and yeah okay, they're both fine now but not really and she was in so much of EOT that I wanted JUST ONE BIT OF HER YELLING AT TEN. Even if she had to go back to forgetting. :(
One of my favorite lines, ever of Doctor Who is, "But really do you think I'd leave my best friend alone without a defense mechanism?"
BECAUSE AWWWWWWWWWWWWW. :( :( :( :(
I do as well. Especially after finding out that it wasn't me that was so offended by fic like that. But TBF, most of the newer stuff is Cloen-friendly. Although now I wince whenever I see Rose refer to him as "John" to people that I think she should refer to him as "the Doctor" in front of. HE IS THE DOCTOR. ARGH.
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she was in so much of EOT that I wanted JUST ONE BIT OF HER YELLING AT TEN. Even if she had to go back to forgetting. :(
I KNOW :( AND THE CLIFFHANGER WAS SO MEAN BECAUSE IT WAS ALL ":O DONNA'S REMEMBERING" AND I WAS LIKE "YESSSSS" and then she FELL ASLEEP which incidentally, Ten, is THE WORST defense mechanism WTF. She was just passed out in an alleyway on a planet full of Master clones. D: But I am kind of intrigued by the implication that she's not ~fully human anymore (since she didn't turn into a Master clone).
Donna is the only fix-it fic I've ever written, lol.ENDLESS TRAGEDY.
YES "JOHN" IS AN INSTANT BACK-BUTTON FOR ME.Also, while I agree that there would be a rough adjustment period immediately after JE, I'm always surprised by fics that have him like, strike off on his own~ to ~find himself~ or whatever before eventually he and Rose get back together. I totally buy that there'd be awkwardness and stuff, but I cannot fathom him leaving her. I am pretty sure he'd be clinging to her like a lifeboat.
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"So, I think the Master should disguise himself. He could dye his hair blond. In a public toilet. He's scrubbing away at the sink. That puts in mind an Ortonesque post-watershed scene where the Master is dying his hair like a rent boy, and a smart businessman comes in cruising, and the Maste takes him into a cubicle, and murders him. Maybe after sex. That won't happen, fo obvious reasons, but I thought of it anyway. Why do I think of things that will never happen?"
I was intrigued by that as well! I mean, it's not ever going to be explored now, but it does leave some interesting possibilities for fic. Or 2013. You know. I feel like after 2013 happens or doesn't happen how I want it, I'm going to have to deal with the fact that all these things that I want to happen are probably never going to happen. :(
Me wanting Donna yelling at Ten just one more time is so high up there on the list of my DW needs that need to be fulfilled.
If the fic is either short enough or interesting enough, I can mentally substitute. However, I'm still so bothered, it is usually not as fun to read.
Oh, this is from your previous comment, but NEVER "I don't love you angst". See, the thing I like about your angst is that it's usually based on the opposite, the fact that they love each other too much. Or outside forces. Or just normal stuff that doesn't cause people to run off to Brazil. And yes, I see lots of awkward, desperate, confused clingyness during those first few weeks. Then normal clingyness.
The only way I could see him leaving her would be Rose kicking him out, which I could see way before the other way around. But even then, the circumstances would be insane. IDK Cloen reminds me a kicked puppy at times, which I think can be pretty accurate.
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LOL I think fandom as a whole is going to set itself up for disappointment in 2013, ngl. I'm trying not to think about it because I don't want to be one of the ones disappointed, LIRL
Fix-its for me need to work within canon. So I guess maybe they don't coutn as actual fix-its. It's not so much 'fix it' as it is 'make myself feel better about it' fic, I guess.
Yeah I'm way more interested in outside-forces angst. It works that way in canons, too. I can't care about a ship if the reason they're not together is because they hate each other half the time, or whatever. But "us against the world!" is more appealing to me.
I imagine Rose being the distant one in the first bit after JE. I sort of feel like she would flip-flop between accepting him as the Doctor and not really wanting anything to do with him because she is confused and angry with Ten and whatnot. But I imagine him just kind of waiting patiently ("patiently" here meaning "without saying anything but while secretly panicking") and resisting the urge to just permanently latch himself onto her leg.
I could only see him leaving her for the usual sanctimonious ~it's for the best~ reasons, but even then it would have to be something really extreme. Frances and I didn't even think he could manage it in Evil Sweden, so idk. I could see him running out on her if she got pregnant, which is sort of an unpopular opinion unless you are me or Frances, but even still that situation is so horrifically sad and awful to me that I would probably never write it, lol.
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It's not so much 'fix it' as it is 'make myself feel better about it' fic, I guess.
Yes. Immediately after I watched, I needed actual fixit fic, where dying!Ten goes back into Cloen's body or something so that EVERYONE IS HAPPY. But now I've just gotten over a lot of it and I am sorta okay with Ten dying. I just go off and read Rose and Cloen stories.
Oh pretty much everything you described about Rose in the days post-JE is pretty much how I see her. The Doctor would have no choice but to just wait and silently panic.
If he couldn't manage it in Evil Sweden (is that what you guys call that fic?) or Blood and Anger and Revenge (where it wouldn't make sense because he already was without her) then IDK.
I could see him running out on her if she got pregnant
:O Maybe for like a day? Or two? Three? EEEK. It's not like Rose did it all by herself. Awwww. Poor Rose.
Like I am actually very neutral about Cloen/Rose babies, but I can't figure out if a lot of it is my desire to see Ten/DT with a child.
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rofl yes "Evil Sweden" was our working title for a long time. We tend to pick titles at the very last possible second, so in the meantime they have working titles that end up living on in my heart. We've been working on one called "Octopus" for like ....six months.
:O Maybe for like a day? Or two? Three? EEEK. It's not like Rose did it all by herself. Awwww. Poor Rose.
I think he has too many issues to want children (as discussed and then exacerbated by The Doctor's Daughter), and I think he would panic if presented with that reality, and his reaction when he panics is usually to flee, so that's what I think he would do. lol there's this like whole never-to-be-written fic in my head about it but the tl;dr version is that he would think he was doing the right thing~ because he has a tendency to blow up his children, and then eventually that would be compounded by guilt and fear and cowardice which would keep him away. I would never write this because it is TOO TERRIBLE but that is sort of how I imagine things happening if they had kids, which is why I am so NO DNW NO KIDS OMG NO. I'm pretty sure Remus and Tonks left me scarred for life.
Like I am actually very neutral about Cloen/Rose babies, but I can't figure out if a lot of it is my desire to see Ten/DT with a child.
LOL I am so staunchly against Doctor/Rose babies because I think it's OOC, but I kind of hate myself for how sexy I think it is when a guy is good with kids. I don't even like kids and I don't particularly see myself wanting them, so I assume it is an unstoppable evolutionary thing, which is why I hate it. But like, idk, that is what Tony Tyler is for.
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Octopus sounds very thrilling.
Very interesting with all your Doctor and children thoughts. I can definitely see where you're coming.
I hate when the pregnancy/children are used as an obvious plot point to an annoying level, but if it's there I usually get excited. I CANNOT RESIST ADORABLE Dad!Cloen/Ten/David. I have gotten too much enjoyment out of Jim & Pam's baby and JKras holding that thing.
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LIRL Poor Octopus. I hope it gets finished some day.
I mean, I can see why that is not ever what happens in babyfic, because even I don't want to write it. But it's also like... what I see happening with my conception of the characters, so a) I don't want them to have babies and b) them having babies in other people's fic is hard for me to read because it goes against how I see the characters.
Plus kids are had to write, so even though it can be cute I don't write Tony often.
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I get it. Like it's just so part of your head canon that it's weird for you to read it? And hard for you to accept the fic then? Bad example, but it drives me INSANE when for some reason Cloen likes wearing black leather jackets and sweaters. UM WHAT? Like fine he's not in suits at all times, but now he's just Nine? No, just don't do that. But it's so a part of my head canon, I am confused when other people see SUCH AN OBVIOUS thing that way.
Oh I know.
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YEAH basically. Like Cloen and Rose with babies is as weird and DNW for me as him suddenly calling himself John Smith. OR DRESSING LIKE NINE. IF HE WANTED TO DRESS LIKE NINE, HE HAD AN ENTIRE TARDIS WARDROBE AT HIS DISPOSAL. BUT HE PICKED UP THE BLUE SUIT. lol I also imagine he just wears suits every day, ngl. This is partly because, let's be honest, suits are hot, and partly because he is just weird like that. I imagine he owns more than one suit, but still. Suits ahoy.
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YES. And I need Cloen being weird/a shitty human on a daily basis. It's just such a huge part of how I see Ten, and therefore, see Cloen being in that situation. I am so unbelievably picky about my preference of alien-ness versus human-ness in Cloen.
I basically imagine that other than the Doctor not really getting any, he is basically Barney Stinson's role model. Suits FTW.
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lol me too. He has to be a little bit off, Ten always was. It's no fun if he's just magically human. Also I don't know why Rose would be okay with just like... replacing... Ten with someone who looks like Ten and wears jeans but calls himself John Smith and wants to work at a bank. This is also why Rose/Random David Tennant Character freaks me out.
lol he probably even wears suit pajamas like Barney.
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I do not ship Rose/David Tennant, as much as that now sounds appealing. I ship Rose and this mysterious alien who calls himself the Doctor. That's who I want to read about.
HE SO DOES. YOU KNOW HE DOES.
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