Affirmative Action

[_sameer_]

Alright, so here's the background, in brief: A lot of people have been mentioning Affirmative Action lately. Some in support, most in opposition. It bothers me to no end, because most of the people that state that they are in opposition to Affirmative Action are supposedly liberal, definitely white, and avowedly for the goal it espouses. So here's

Comments

[angelocaduto]

Being white does mean you haven't been discriminated against. Try being a girl from a rural, religious area some time. Woo...I get a place in the kitchen! And I can't be nearly as smart as my male counterparts because I'm female and so must be just getting lucky with my guesses or be getting a break.

[angelocaduto]

Or...try to have a not-so-moral sexual orientation. That's fun too. Really shows who your friends are.

[_sameer_]

I meant, based on something you can't hide or change. You hypothetically could hide being homosexual.

I guess you could argue for being female as one of those. I still don't think that happens nearly as much, though. You don't see chicks getting shot at when they reach for their wallet in Portland, but you do see black people having that happen.

PS - I understand the idea that people discriminate against the intelligence of women. The difference is that you still get a shot at proving them wrong (exceptions exist, of course, but I don't think it's the rule. Prove me wrong, because I will never know what it's like to be female - I go by third-party indicators when I say it's "the worst," not emotion and experience).

[angelocaduto]

It's not just an intelligence thing even. It's still a belongs in the kitchen thing too. You can be intelligent and still be considered a thing. The valedictorian from Prairie a while back wasn't allowed to go to college. Her family was going to disown her if she did, so she worked as a receptionist until she found a husband and then was made to quit having even that job by him. Because that was what her place should be.

[_sameer_]

Point taken. But that doesn't disprove the argument I'm trying to make, does it - it just adds another element.

[angelocaduto]

That you can prove your intelligence as a woman? Actaully, it just shows that it is worth nothing in some cases.

In all honesty, I think that the discrimination against women is in some cases worse. At least most people acknowledge discrimination based on race. (Oh, and as for the airport thing? In 2003 I actually did a study on that...and discrimination based on race in lines was basically non-existent. There was about a 5% greater chance of getting searched as a minority than white).

[angelocaduto]

Sorry, my research was at PDX.

[_sameer_]

Again, it doesn't MATTER whether it's worse or not. I did not say in there anything that could be construed as a comparison. The change of subject leads me to something I never spoke regarding - I'm not able to defend a position I don't have or never stated, nor argue about it. This post is on Affirmative Action and minority rights

[angelocaduto]

No, it was not white vs "other." Asians had the least chance of being searched, then whites, then about equal for hispanic, black and arab. Women had a 10% more likely chance of being searched. Which was definitely interesting.

[_sameer_]

Interesting. I'd actually like to look at that, for methodology purposes and to see if maybe that's a PDX only thing. I personally get pulled out less on the way out of PDX than on the way back.

[angelocaduto]

I'll see if I can find my big fat notebook of data. I spent like 15 hours staring at people and making tally marks, so I would think I'd keep that...but never know.

[angelocaduto]

Thank you.

It's nice to have somebody be able to put into words what I was trying to.

[_sameer_]

I disagree with the implications this raises, despite agreeing with the facts. I completely side with my mother and my sister, of course, so never let it be said that what I'm saying can be construed any differently

[angelocaduto]

I admit I started the "what about x?" part of this. But I did so because you implied that because a person is white they don't understand discrimination.

"You don't understand what it's like not to be white. Go on, tell me that there's no discrimination in this world. Say it. Tell me even that it's just LESS than people make it out to be. Oh yeah, because YOU have experienced it, right? Wait - you're white."

I'm white. And a woman. And bisexual. I understand what it's like to be discriminated against, even if I don't understand what it's like to not me white.

[_sameer_]

Perhaps I should have added a qualifier about discrimination based on race. You have quoted me, yes, but if you look at the first line of that, you can see that I intended the comments to follow from that - in other words, white people can't understand what it's like not to be white. I used the word "discrimination" in that post to refer specifically to discrimination based on race.

It's not to say that there is no other kind of discrimination at all. It's just that I didn't address that in this post.

PS - I in no way intend to denigrate nor lessen the impacts of or the existence of discrimination in other forms. But at the same time, I feel that continually bringing up other forms of discrimination when I am trying to address one specific type denigrates and lessens both the existence and the impacts of that type of it.