Advent Children rambling
So I saw the thing last night, WOW. Though typical of a Japanese anime, Advent Children was packed with trite, pretentious dialogues and trite, pretentious themes; the breath-takingly beautiful CG, Cloud, Sephiroth and various likeable minor characters more than made up for it! Now I know close to *nothing* about Final Fantasy VII settings, so I am
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Oh, fake!grrlpower annoys me as much as (most) anyone else. Tifa annoyed me more in the second half of the movie, where she didn't do anything but say "Aw, Cloud's so cool!" Yuffie was able to fight and be interesting. If only the same could be said of Tifa.
I got the impression that Loz was perhaps using half of his skill during the fight with Tifa. Certainly once he brought in his superspeed, she was out like a light. I doubt highly that she ever gave him a true run for his money.
*LOL*
What hurts? Was it obvious? Or am I to take it that the software company was doing a bit of slashfanservice ;-)?
*snicker* That whole scene was perhaps the most slashfanservice-y moment in a long game filled with slashfanservice-y moments. :D They don't give any more details on what exactly happened other than those lines really, but isn't that enough? XD
Objectively speaking, Cloud really doesn't feel very heterosexual, or hell, sexual in AC.
He isn't, really. He spent most of his formative years in the army and then in a glowing green tube, so Cloud turned out rather oblivious to when people like him. It's possible to play the game so that he grows to like one of the three girls (or Barrett) but even during the one date sequence in the game, he still has to be dragged out and has no real idea what to do. The one time he gets kissed, he almost goes into shock. (This might be as Yuffie did the kissing, but I digress). Also, the poor dear has to feel somewhat like VSD!Frodo - everyone hits on Cloud. Pervy bastards, all three girls, Sephiroth, Barett, and good lord, when he's in drag...!
The Aerith/Cloud bit you felt was intentional. Aeris is the default romantic interest in the game, with a few caveats. One of which is that she dies. -_-; But the creators of FFVII were extremely careful in the way they set up the romance levels. FFVII is unusual because there is no OTP, and so the C/A bits in the movie just was there to keep that balance. (And since I was originally a C/A shipper, it made me quite happy!)
Cloud/Tifa was played up roughly the same amount as it was in the game. It's implied that they lived together at some point before the movie, but they aren't living together now. And Tifa knows Cloud well enough to tell him to knock off the angsting, (something she would never have done during the game) so I suppose they're better friends now than they were before. But the impression I get is still platonic in AC, whereas in the game it felt more romantic in nature, but they didn't know each other at all.
Re: Sephiroth
*snickers uncontrollably*
I definately think Sephiroth was more intrigued by the concept of "playing" with Cloud than with going off with his spaceship!Gaia plan. He was definately all about the flirtation rather than the fighting, as like you mentioned, he was all *stabbity* + Mockage, rather than *stabbity* + Death. Combine that with his line then, the whole "let me strip you of your most precious item" and what have you, and really it's just asking us slash fangirls to go mad.
Cloud surprised me with his response during that whole bit, really. He was shocked at first (and his face when Sephiroth first shows up! the look on his face!! It makes me squee like mad, yo) but that seemed to fall to determination quite quickly. And he didn't have a problem catching Kadaj, when he fell, which makes me wonder if the people who ship S/C and say Cloud would be able to forgive Sephiroth are actually right.
I've been babbling about AC for a couple of weeks now. Thank you for allowing me to continue doing so. XD
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My point exactly. Fighting skill that is rather showy and nice to look at, but ultimately achieves nothing, is a waste of screentime.
Cloud turned out rather oblivious to when people like him
Haha, which I bet only increases his attractiveness X-D
It's possible to play the game so that he grows to like one of the three girls (or Barrett)
What does he do with Barrett if you hook him up with Cloud @_@?
And since I was originally a C/A shipper, it made me quite happy!
Oh you were? But what made you no longer a shipper? I like the lack of OTP, for unless it's a pairing I can really love it'll be more fun to work on the subtext :-)! That and romance too often takes away from an adventure story rather than contributes to it!
but they aren't living together now
But Cloud is totally moving back, I bet -_-;; Haha I think I even like the Reno/Cloud interactions better than that of Cloud/Tifa, and it's not even my slash addict self speaking here.
He was definately all about the flirtation rather than the fighting
OHHHH!! When he gave Cloud "the look" and drawled smexly, "Hisashiburi dana,Cloud." I almost dyed of sheer excitement- and I am not even a longtime fan or anything!!!
the whole "let me strip you of your most precious item" and what have you, and really it's just asking us slash fangirls to go mad
X-D X-D X-D
I got a feeling Cloud is probably the only being in the world who still amuses this lunatic- he even praised Cloud for having gotten stronger, I mean if I didn't know about their backstory, I would've thought they were a mentor/apprentice pair that broke up messily or something- er, it was kind of like that actually, wasn't it? What with Cloud hero-worshipping Sephiroth up until the moment Sephiroth went insane and killed every thing Cloud ever cared about.
Speaking of which, if I were to read a S/C fic, I'd want Sephiroth's insanity/(in)humanity be seriously dealt with. A simple "ooopsiii, I killed/got killed a hell lota people, but that was because I LOVED you baby, so forgive me (wink wink)?" just wouldn't do in their situation ^^;; I think it's totally impossible for S and C to be friends again, ever, what would be a great "redemption" story for me would be Sephiroth regaining *some* sanity/humanity, I got the impression he wasn't a complete monster before he discovered the little secret about his mommy ^^?
which makes me wonder if the people who ship S/C and say Cloud would be able to forgive Sephiroth are actually right.
*If* Sephiroth ever seeks forgiveness, I guess Cloud would give it to him? He seems the saintly sort deep down, though not in an annoying way. Hey even just from the small glimpse of Cloud's character in AC I could see why you like him so much, I certainly find him insanely adorable X-D!!!
Thank you for allowing me to continue doing so. XD
You haven't written a review on AC in your LJ, I was wondering where you have been talking about it! I thank you for continuing to educate me in all things FFVII, hey you still haven't explained about the "elder brother" thing though @_@???
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It did for me at least... But then, I tend to like it best when my favorite characters are utterly oblivious to when people like them. XD
What does he do with Barrett if you hook him up with Cloud @_@?
*g* It's funny you should ask that... I finally got the Barrett date last weekend. It's funny, but ironically, it's the one that would best convince me that Cloud is better off with one of the girls. In the final part of the date when the two are talking, Barrett starts off by asking Cloud what the hell he's doing out with Barrett and why didn't he take Tifa or Aeris or Yuffie? Cloud doesn't really have a response, so Barrett says something along the lines of "...You weren't thinking about Marlene were you?" and goes off on a rant about how Cloud isn't allowed anywhere near his daughter.
What does he do with Barrett if you hook him up with Cloud @_@?
It's less than I stopped shipping them and more that I find the dynamics of other relationships more interesting. I absolutely adore the nuances of Cloud and Yuffie, for instance. She's an utter brat, but she's the only one with the guts to make a move on Cloud during the entire game and he wasn't exactly complaining. Plus she cries on his shoulder when Aeris dies, and it's just, all in all, rather sweet. And bratty. But sweet. And I totally ship me some Zack/Cloud, omg. And Zack/Aeris/Cloud. And I'm all about my sekrit S/C-ness because gaaaah. And Sephiroth/Zack/Cloud.
Basically, C/A is sweet and fun and I still like it, but the others are all so much more interesting to read about. XD
Re: Cloud and Tifa's future living arrangments
Yeah, I think he'll move back in. But I think it will continue to be platonic and it won't ever move beyond that. Somehow I see Denzel moving back with Marlene when Barrett calls her, and then Tifa and Cloud will probably drift apart. If they hadn't hooked up in the two year interum, I doubt highly it will happen afterwards.
I almost dyed of sheer excitement- and I am not even a longtime fan or anything!!!
XDXDXD TRUST ME, you weren't the only one!! I saw that and my mouth dropped open in sheer amazement. Oh, it's a lovely lovely scene. It's really that low "Cloud-o" that gets me. Honest.
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Er? But what kind of "date" was it if the man would only talk about other women and his daughter ^^;;;??? So they just... they just talked? And Barrett didn't... like confess his feelings or anything 0_o?
And I totally ship me some Zack/Cloud
From even just the brief flashback, Zack seemed like a cool guy (refer to shameless fanwoman-ness in OP). What were their interactions like though? Simply friendly? Zack acting like a big brother etc?
And Sephiroth/Zack/Cloud.
What were the Sephiroth/Zack interactions like? And by the way, did Sephiroth ever have any genuine friend? Or at least someone he trusted?
If they hadn't hooked up in the two year interum, I doubt highly it will happen afterwards.
Out of pure selfishness I'd want him to stay single (but HAPPY!) for life... Er.
It's really that low "Cloud-o" that gets me.
Yup, love flirty!Sephiroth, and wide-eyed!Cloud, that scene was just soooooo yummy, I could rewind it forever and ever and ever...
ps. Sorry again for my endless qUeStIonssssss yo! I am the sort of newbie who drives old fans absolutely nutter, I am sure you see why now ^^:::
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XDXD It's not a really romantic date, but none of them truly are. Aeris talks about wanting to know Cloud better and if I recall correctly, Tifa starts to talk about how she feels but chickens out. Yuffie goes the farthest with her kiss, but Cloud immediately goes silent and she freaks. (Literally. It's rather funny!) Barrett's has more humor at the beginning, when he asks Cloud to go on a walk and Cloud goes "...Just us?" and Barrent responds "D'you have a problem with that?!" Something along those lines...
From even just the brief flashback, Zack seemed like a cool guy (refer to shameless fanwoman-ness in OP). What were their interactions like though? Simply friendly? Zack acting like a big brother etc?
Zack is admittingly awesome. You get to see more of him (but sadly not much!) in the game's flashbacks, and a new OAV was recently released called Last Order that has a good deal of Zack in it. Zack just seems like a friendly, outgoing guy. A lot of Cloud's memories from the first half of the game are actually things that Zack had done. Zack had been really concerned about Sephiroth and had checked up on him (though to be fair, Cloud did too) and it was Zack who questioned a motion-sick Cloud and tried to make him feel a bit better. We don't know how well they knew each other before they were experiemented on together, but it's not unreasonable to see them as friends. Zack's only a few years older than Cloud, and it's implied that he took part in the Wutai war.
If anyone was honestly Sephiroth's friend, it was Zack. Sephiroth and Zack get along well enough to tease each other (or at least for Sephiroth to tease Zack) and it's implied that they've been on missions together in the past. Zack was a SOLDIER First Class, like Sephiroth and out of everyone, Zack is the one Sephiroth acts nicest to.
Out of pure selfishness I'd want him to stay single (but HAPPY!) for life... Er.
Unfortunately the people I most want to see Cloud hooked up with are all dead, so yeah. I'm all about the single!Cloud. XDXD
Yup, love flirty!Sephiroth, and wide-eyed!Cloud, that scene was just soooooo yummy, I could rewind it forever and ever and ever...
The bit were Cloud's eyes widen is one of my favorites. I can practically hear the "oh shit" running through his mind. Much love for that bit. And now I need to rewatch it when I get home! XD
And honestly, I'm more than cool with any questions because it helps me pull cool people into the FFVII fandom where they shall never escape! Mwahahahaha!!! because I adore going through meta like this, regardless of series. FFVII is one that hardly gets metalove, so please! Ask! :D
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Ahahaha, looking at Sephiroth staring lovingly into Cloud's face makes me happy. I shall from time to time change the header to different favorite AC screencaps of mine X-D
Cloud goes "...Just us?"
Owwww, his passiveness is just so adorable :-DDD
a new OAV was recently released called Last Order that has a good deal of Zack in it
*hurries to download*
Hey, I wonder why Last Order is less talked about than AC? Is it because it's traditional 2-D cartoon instead of the lustrous CG we got in AC ^^? Oh, and seems it was criticized for having bits that directly contradict with the game @_@?
If anyone was honestly Sephiroth's friend, it was Zack.
Yes, Zack sounds like the kind of character who would've been very, very popular was he in an anime without Cloud and Sephiroth, haha.
Zack is the one Sephiroth acts nicest to
Awwwww... Post-Nibbelheim Sephiroth/Zack would've been a real angsty piece hun? Speaking of which, did they even converse with each other at all after Sephiroth went insane, or was Sephiroth just "chop chop chop bwahahahaha" 0_o?
I'm all about the single!Cloud. XDXD
Let's form a Cloud-dies-a-virgin community or something!!!
Er, or maybe not :-P
I can practically hear the "oh shit" running through his mind.
Hahaha!!! And Sephiroth's "purrrrr, didya miss me baby" really wasn't helping. The revival of the biggest stalker in Cloud's life! No wonder Cloud was earnestly wishing the guy would just fxxking become a memory thxbye- the Sephiroth was, "No way, you are never gonna get rid of me, NEVAHHHHH!!!" X-DDD
Awwww you are too kind, I am in no form, shape or way cool! But since you haven't gotten sick of me just yet, do let me exploit bother you some more :-D
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Ahahaha, looking at Sephiroth staring lovingly into Cloud's face makes me happy.
Oooh, I *like* that. New layouts are lovely things and someday, someday, I shall make my own something beyond the bare basics. And the I own you loving gaze Sephiroth is leveling on Cloud is indeed quite lovely. XDXD
Owwww, his passiveness is just so adorable :-DDD
XDXD He's SO passive. Bizarrely passive. It's why he says stuff like "...it hurts" instead of "Lemme out now you sick freak" whilst being molested.
*hurries to download*
Hey, I wonder why Last Order is less talked about than AC? Is it because it's traditional 2-D cartoon instead of the lustrous CG we got in AC ^^? Oh, and seems it was criticized for having bits that directly contradict with the game @_@?
Yeah... I liked LO because of teh prettieh. It's just awesome seeing Zack in action, and having anything to fill out the Nimbleheim bits is a huge plus. But it did change things, in particular, the climatic scene with just-gone-insane Sephiroth and 16-year-old Cloud. There was another scene at the end that was changed too, and some Turks were added which annoyed me, but mostly teh prettieh causes forgiveness. XD
Awwwww... Post-Nibbelheim Sephiroth/Zack would've been a real angsty piece hun? Speaking of which, did they even converse with each other at all after Sephiroth went insane, or was Sephiroth just "chop chop chop bwahahahaha" 0_o?
Sephiroth/Zack is probably the second most popular Sephiroth pairing, followed closely thereafter by Sephiroth/Aeris. And angst would be a good term for it... Not quite S/C levels of angst, but still right on up there because the personal betrayal factor is so much larger. (IMHO, at any rate..)
Yup, they did talk to one another a bit, but it's hard to tell what Cloud said and what Zack said, because it all came from Cloud's (completely messed up) memories. LO provides some clarity, but it can't be trusted as canon. The basic thought is that Zack confronted Sephiroth just after he went insane, at which point Sephiroth labelled him a traitor (because he's human and not a Cetra). While Zack went "...wtf?" for a while, Sephiroth left and burnt Nimbleheim. (It doesn't make much sense.. They're in a basement of a building when they argue and Sephiroth leaves. Zack runs after him but when he leaves the building, the town's already in flames and people are dead all over the place. Sephiroth is all kinds of fast when it comes to flaming fires and murders.)
Sephiroth then runs off to the reactor where Jenova has been stored and Zack again follows. Zack confronts Sephiroth once more, but it's uncertain whether Cloud or Zack has the conversation that follows, because Cloud was right on Zack's heels.
But yeah, there was definately talking involved and a lot of Zack going "...WTF!!"
Let's form a Cloud-dies-a-virgin community or something!!!
Er, or maybe not :-P
Poor Cloud. Destined never to get any. XDXDXD
Hahaha!!! And Sephiroth's "purrrrr, didya miss me baby" really wasn't helping. The revival of the biggest stalker in Cloud's life! No wonder Cloud was earnestly wishing the guy would just fxxking become a memory thxbye- the Sephiroth was, "No way, you are never gonna get rid of me, NEVAHHHHH!!!" X-DDD
There was the best translation of an extra to that scene a while back... The translation was off, but it made *perfect* sense. I'll have to look it up for you. :D
Awwww you are too kind, I am in no form, shape or way cool! But since you haven't gotten sick of me just yet, do let me exploit bother you some more :-D
Ch, shows what you know. :D You're perfectly awesome and please forgive me for being insane-o type late with my responses... The last couple of days have been pretty hectic. -_-;
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You know, I've by now watched the S/C fighting sequence (though not in its entirety) for no less than a dozen times, and have come to the conclusion that Sephiroth totally, I-could-*almost*-swear-on-the-life-of-my-first-born-ly did not mean to kill Cloud at all. First, the smile, it was totally benign, I don't think loving would be far-off but let's stick with 'friendly'. When he explained to Cloud what he was 'after' (Cloud: He was after you of course, don't be dense!), and Cloud asked him what would happen to the planet, Sephiroth said, "Sa, omae shidai da na (who knows, leave it to you/whatever you want to do with it/depends on you)"- which, I read as he thought, or at least didn't mind that Cloud would still be around after the planet has served its purpose for Sephiroth. Sephiroth continued to tease Cloud with "should I give you despair as a gift?", "let me see you getting down on your knees and beg me for forgiveness", and later "would you allow me the pleasure of taking your most precious", and none of these were the death threat sort. Most importantly, during the fight which resulted in Cloud being pinned to the wall, Sephiroth had *three* chances to seriously hurt Cloud but instead of slashing him with the sword, he first elbowed him, then he shoved him backward using his palm, and finally kicked Cloud against the wall. AND then he "just" penetrated Cloud's shoulder when he totally could've finished him off right there right then! Of course this can be seen as Sephiroth simply being arrogant and wanting to torture his prey before he eventually killed him dead... But Sephiroth's parting line really did not suggest that, he didn't even seen at all angry that his plan was again foiled and he was being sent back to lifestream, perhaps *forever* this time! What was that all about really?
Anyway, the remaining sane portion of my brain (a rather *tiny* portion) tells me it's just me reading too deep into things again, but even if Sephiroth did take his planet!spaceship!scheme seriously, there's no way to convince me he also did mean to kill Cloud then!
the climatic scene with just-gone-insane Sephiroth and 16-year-old Cloud
So Zack wasn't there, at all? And did Sephiroth throw himself into the reactor, or was he thrown into it by Cloud, like wikipedia said? Haha, to me the most memorable scene in LO was when Cloud whispered, "Sephiroth..." like an abandoned puppy as Sephiroth plummeted into the pit of hell X-D
Not quite S/C levels of angst, but still right on up there because the personal betrayal factor is so much larger.
Yes, since they were friends and all!
Sephiroth is all kinds of fast when it comes to flaming fires and murders
I totally had wanted to caption the icon where Sephiroth emerged from fire with: Sephiroth, biggest flaming gay ever lived, but decided not to out of the goodness of my heart my blind love for the man ;-P
But yeah, there was definately talking involved and a lot of Zack going "...WTF!!"
Hahaha!!! Poor Zack, not your fault that you tended to befriend the emotionally unstabled, and the outright psychotic!
The translation was off, but it made *perfect* sense. I'll have to look it up for you. :D
Ohhhh, please do, I am all for inaccurate translation when it suits my purpose!
The last couple of days have been pretty hectic. -_-;
Hey what happened? And no need for apology, hectic days have not the manner to not disturb discussions about gay fictional characters artistic movies!
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I think you've got a point here... Sephiroth really didn't seem that interested in fighting. He was more intrigued by the changes in Cloud and showing off. The whole wrist flick with the clouds? Yeah, utter "Lookit what *I* can do!"
His whole Spaceship Gaia plan really seemed off to me as well. I mean, two years of sitting around in Lifestream and that's the BEST he could come up with? He's supposed to be a mighty, fantastic General! And yet his whole plan boils down to 1. flirt with main hero and 2. crash planet. It's like something the King of the Cosmos would have come up with...
Also his lazy "Saa, omae shidai da na" totally gets me. That's not the intense, let me kill you attitude from the game. He didn't banter in the game. He mocked, yes, and he insulted and he threatened and occasionally commented congenially, but banter? Never. This Sephiroth just seems different than that of the game, and I don't think it's supposed to be explained as sequel OOC. Perhaps his goals have.. not changed, I wouldn't say, but maybe mellowed? Like "eh, haven't got anything better to do, might as well go crash the planet?"
Anyway, the remaining sane portion of my brain (a rather *tiny* portion) tells me it's just me reading too deep into things again, but even if Sephiroth did take his planet!spaceship!scheme seriously, there's no way to convince me he also did mean to kill Cloud then!
XD I don't think you're reading too deeply into it. I'm also of the school of thought that Sephiroth wasn't entirely serious about that fight, but then I'm also positive that Cloud wasn't either. If he *had* been, he would have whipped out the Omnislash-esque move much earlier, especially since it's really the only hit(s) he landed. It seems like neither was really giving their all.. It felt more like sparring, sort of. Cloud's line of "return to my memories" just isn't the normal "kthx, die now plz" sort of reaction most heros get when confronted with main villians, especially those who have returned from the dead. I don't think it was a conscious thing, but rather a subconscious holding back. There's a scene in the extras which, to me, supports this where Cloud finally tells Sephiroth "WTF, you were my hero when I was a kid!" and Sephiroth's all like "Aw, what an honor" - but that's still not the sort of "DEATH!!" reaction you'd expect.
So Zack wasn't there, at all? And did Sephiroth throw himself into the reactor, or was he thrown into it by Cloud, like wikipedia said? Haha, to me the most memorable scene in LO was when Cloud whispered, "Sephiroth..." like an abandoned puppy as Sephiroth plummeted into the pit of hell X-D
Zack *was* there, but he'd confronted Sephiroth first and had his ass firmly handed to him. So he was lying wounded (and if I recall had even told Cloud to go fight Sephiroth) whilst the stabbity occurred.
As for Cloud tossing Sephiroth or Sephiroth jumping... LO changed it to the Sephiroth jump, which I personally loathe. It takes away from the Cloud-Sephiroth connection. Sephiroth also didn't get a chance to think to himself (that we saw) "What is this kid?" in the game, it was very much Cloud suspended by the Marasume, Cloud reversing gravity whilst being suspended by the Marasume, and Cloud tossing Sephiroth into the Mako pit. Personally, I like that version better. It lends more credence to the thought that there was Something Up With Cloud before he was experimented on, without resorting to giving him Mako glowy eyes like LO did. Esp. since there was no indication of Cloud's glowy eyes before he was experimented on in the game.
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Haha! I love it when a sexgod figure is reduced to a overgrown brat in front of someone *special* :-PPP
This Sephiroth just seems different than that of the game, and I don't think it's supposed to be explained as sequel OOC.
Well, I don't know game Sephiroth first hand, obviously, but AC Sephiroth really seemed like he had a different agenda, or at least a different priority. I mean, throughout the movie I never felt like there was a looming threat, a really nasty impending doom, and when Sephiroth emerged? Sure the tension shot up by about 500%, but still, no feeling of serious threat/doom whatsoever. It felt like, it felt just like what Kadaj said, a reunion. And stragely, the reappearance and 'death' (?) of Sephiroth gave Cloud what no one had been able to in the past 2 years - closure. I know it'd be going way too far to say giving Cloud closure was why Sephiroth came back, but hey, he did say that the resentment (?) of those who died from Geostigma would eventually devour the lifestream, so it sounded like he just had to resurface before that happened. And since the planet was a goner anyway, heh, why not use it to his advantage? Wheeeee, space travellllllll X-DDD
I'm also of the school of thought that Sephiroth wasn't entirely serious about that fight, but then I'm also positive that Cloud wasn't either.
Yep. Why did he ask Sephiroth "what are you after?" and "what's gonna happen to this planet"? As if had Sephiroth given him a tolerable answer ("world peace" and "oh nothing"), he might not have wanted to kill him or something? When facing an supposedly dead mortal enemy, wouldn't it be normal to just go chop chop stab stab no question asked? Of course, the plot required speech time for Sephiroth, or how else were we to know what his motive (or excuse) was for coming back? Also, I just adore it when Sephiroth stabbed through Cloud's shoulder, Cloud gave Sephiroth that pained, pouty, "how could you!" look- as if he did not expect Sephiroth to really hurt him X-D! All in all, yeah I agree with you, it appeared to me that it was only Sephiroth taunt of taking Cloud's most precious that propelled Cloud's killing move- it was to protect those he loved, not out of vengeance.
There's a scene in the extras which, to me, supports this where Cloud finally tells Sephiroth "WTF, you were my hero when I was a kid!" and Sephiroth's all like "Aw, what an honor" - but that's still not the sort of "DEATH!!" reaction you'd expect.
That's it then- this "fight" between them was purely personal, it was *just* Cloud VS Sephiroth, not Avalanche VS Jenova & crazy offspring. It was Cloud, facing his childhood hero for one last time, and Sephiroth, facing the only person in the whole world who could still make him feel human- morbid curiosity and sadism might not be positive human feelings, but they are definitely human ;-)
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I get the impression that Sephiroth was deliberately manipulating those affected with Geostigma, or that Jenova was, and by that point it was about the same thing. But even this new plan is less horrific than his old one; in the game Sephiroth's whole thing was to become a god. Here he just wants to follow his mother's example. Still planet destroying, but somehow less sinister?
Yep. Why did he ask Sephiroth "what are you after?" and "what's gonna happen to this planet"? As if had Sephiroth given him a tolerable answer ("world peace" and "oh nothing"), he might not have wanted to kill him or something?
I think it's just goes to show how "special" their relationship is... I can't stand fics that have Sephiroth return with Cloud cast as someone in background going "!!!WTFKILLZHIMNOW!!1!" Usually you get that with Sephiroth/Tifa (o.0) or Sephiroth/Aeris, and it never fails to annoy me.. I loved it here that Cloud seems more about the talking than about the fighting. Some of that might have been shock, but it stills shows what his gut instinct was. Sephiroth had him almost completely on the defensive until the end, which really worked for me, and not just in the cinematic "hero will eventually triumph!" sort of way.
Honestly, AC raises so many questions about how Cloud would react to a sane!Sephiroth that it's not even funny. Now if only I can find a story combining that without the "first and only true love since age of 15"....
That's it then- this "fight" between them was purely personal, it was *just* Cloud VS Sephiroth, not Avalanche VS Jenova & crazy offspring. It was Cloud, facing his childhood hero for one last time, and Sephiroth, facing the only person in the whole world who could still make him feel human- morbid curiosity and sadism might not be positive human feelings, but they are definitely human ;-)
You know, I'd never really considered that take on Sephiroth's emotions before. And I really like that idea! It works really well, especially since it would be a love-hate thing on Sephiroth's part... He wants to be above all of that human stuff, even believes that he is, and yet the words of this one skinny blond man keep coming back to haunt him... I find that especially interesting considering that Sephiroth honestly either believed or wanted to believe that Cloud really wasn't anything more than an emotionless puppet. He actually seemed slightly disturbed when Cloud freaked after Sephiroth killed Aeris, because Cloud wasn't supposed to display anger and pain like that.
And yeah, the climax? Totally personal. Even the other Avalanche members seemed to get that. Well, perhaps aside from Yuffie. But I liked her "discrimination!!" line. :D
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Are Jenova and Sephiroth the same person now ;-P? Oh I don't know... I am likely seeing Sephiroth in too harmless a light now since I didn't see how bad he was in the game?
Here he just wants to follow his mother's example.
Speaking of which, did he eventually get that his "mom" wasn't one of the Cetra, but a disaster from heaven?
I can't stand fics that have Sephiroth return with Cloud cast as someone in background going "!!!WTFKILLZHIMNOW!!1!"
WTF -__-;;;
It's nice innit? That what we got in the game was instead the Avalanche crew decided not to interfere, let Cloud sort it out with his ex-boyfriend ;-P Oh another thing, I like somebody's take on Cloud's changing from defense to offence when Sephiroth threatened to take what Cloud treasured the most away from him- that Cloud realized at that moment he was still talking to a Jenova-possessed/manipulated Sephiroth instead of the "real deal". The sentence structure he used then was indeed interesting, "nani mo wakattenai" (you didn't come to understand anything) instead of "nani mo wakaranai" (you *don't* understand anything)- I am not sure if the subtle difference in tense meant anything, though.
Honestly, AC raises so many questions about how Cloud would react to a sane!Sephiroth that it's not even funny.
And now you are basically killing me with the prospect of a sane!Sephiroth/Cloud interaction that most likely will never materialize in canon Y_Y!!! Yes, if Cloud could be so non-hostile with a Sephiroth that was still about killing and destroying and hurting him; if Cloud could be so ready to take pity on Kadaj, who throughout the movie tried to hurt people he cares about--- what would Cloud react to a Sephiroth who wouldn't do any of the above?
Now if only I can find a story combining that without the "first and only true love since age of 15"....
I think it's easier if you write one yourself :-D By the way, have you read this S/C ship manifesto thingy? I am curious as to what you think of it, if you've read it before...
He actually seemed slightly disturbed when Cloud freaked after Sephiroth killed Aeris, because Cloud wasn't supposed to display anger and pain like that.
Haha! I like that, Cloud was like the force of gravity, pulling back a Sephiroth who was drifting farther and farther away from humanity :-D I'd have expected Zack to do the job, considering he was Sephiroth's only friend when he was sane- I guess Zack just wasn't strong enough to get to Sephiroth?
Well, perhaps aside from Yuffie. But I liked her "discrimination!!" line. :D
Haha! Yeah... I do get why you like her, she dispels tension by never quite getting it :-P I also like the depiction of her in A Long Hard Road, she's still bratty-ish, but at the same time very trust-worthy and dependable *g*
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I can't tell you whether Sephiroth himself was actually harmless, but I don't think he was. I take it that he took on Jenova's will. Before he was Materia-ized, he was all about doing it for Mother. Afterwards, he wanted to do it for himself. So whether that's Jenova acting through Sephiroth's body, or Sephiroth just taking over and becoming the frontman, either way, I don't see him as completely innocent.
Speaking of which, did he eventually get that his "mom" wasn't one of the Cetra, but a disaster from heaven?
Sephiroth knew about the Calamity From the Skies, and fisked with Cloud's head about it to boot at in the last major thing before Aeris died. And in AC he definately seemed to know that Jenova came from space. But then, so did the Cetra originally, so it's entirely possible that he's combined the two ideas into one.
The sentence structure he used then was indeed interesting, "nani mo wakattenai" (you didn't come to understand anything) instead of "nani mo wakaranai" (you *don't* understand anything)
Oh, that *is* interesting. It almost adds a level of disappointment, like Sephiroth was supposed to learn something. Most intriguing...
I think it ties back to Cloud's need to protect though. So long as Sephiroth was just threatening him, Cloud didn't really have an issue with it. He's been through so much and has such a history with Sephiroth that he's probably used to it. But once Sephiroth brought in Cloud's most precious things, he switched gears. Or, interestingly perhaps, once he realized that Sephiroth didn't know what that most precious thing was...
And now you are basically killing me with the prospect of a sane!Sephiroth/Cloud interaction that most likely will never materialize in canon Y_Y!!!
The difference might be that Kadaj tried and that Sephiroth suceeded. There's a fic that was posted recently on the myprettypuppet (eventually I'll learn how to link communities, honest) community that had an interesting take, where Cloud basically jumped worlds to one where Cloud Strife had gone insane and Sephiroth had lead Avalanche to stop him. I haven't read too much of it, but I rather like the idea.
What might be interesting would be if Sephiroth and Jenova differed on what should be done with Cloud, since those two seem to be almost one at this point. Jenova views Cloud as just another clone, but Sephiroth has reason to know otherwise. It's one of the few sticking points I can see between them, really.
I think it's easier if you write one yourself :-D By the way, have you read this S/C ship manifesto thingy?
*squee* I have read that before. I've utter love for Ship Manifesto. I remember reading it and really enjoying it the first time, but finding some things I disagreed with the second go-round. Might definately be time to reread it though, it's been months!
Haha! I like that, Cloud was like the force of gravity, pulling back a Sephiroth who was drifting farther and farther away from humanity :-D I'd have expected Zack to do the job, considering he was Sephiroth's only friend when he was sane- I guess Zack just wasn't strong enough to get to Sephiroth?
Zack did try, to his credit. He just tried at the worst possible time. XD And then he had to go and die, so unless he was bugging Sephiroth in Lifestream (oh, I only wish) he wouldn't have been able to do much.
Cloud though.. And that would be an interesting tie-in to the idea above, if Jenova saw Cloud as a threat to her control over Sephiroth...
Haha! Yeah... I do get why you like her, she dispels tension by never quite getting it
I really do adore her character, especially because if you play the game how it's supposed to be, she's one of the few characters who does grow and change over the course of it. She starts off acting seemingly all about herself, and later you find out that she was acting All For Wutai, and she cries on Cloud's shoulder when Aeris dies, and aw. And she's excellent in ALHR. Reading it, I definately get a wonderful sense of how she could grow from teenager she was in the game into the adult she is in ALHR. It's just works for me.
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That would definitely be the sane/logical way of looking at him, I completely agree *g* It's just that I did't seem to quite get the AC plot... I wasn't sure if Geostigma were inflicted on Cloud etc deliberately (or was it an accident), I know Kadaj was able to manipulate those kids with Geostigma, and it really wouldn't be a stretch to presume Sephiroth did mean to cause this... disease or whatever. But when Sephiroth was blathering about his spaceship!planet plan, I could not see a causal relationship between 'the willpower/resentment of those who died of Geostigma devouring the Lifestream' and 'planet becomes a spaceship', iow, I couldn't see how the whole giving people Geostigma--> getting the Lifestream devoured scheme would lead to Sephiroth being able to execute his plan. So at first I thought what Sephiroth was saying was, that the plan would "die" (void of Lifestream) at the rate it was going, so he might as well use it as a spaceship to find a better planet when he still could. Maybe what he meant was, the planet needed to "die" before he could use it as a spaceship 0.o ?
But then, so did the Cetra originally, so it's entirely possible that he's combined the two ideas into one.
Why am I trying to figure out how the lunatic's mind worked? *g*
Oh, that *is* interesting. It almost adds a level of disappointment, like Sephiroth was supposed to learn something.
And Sephiroth's reaction to Cloud's "pathetic, you did not come to understand anything" was quite interesting too, he sort of snorted and pouted, like a brat who deep down knows what his opponent is getting at, but is unwilling to acknowledge it. Sephiroth really has much, much to learn, he needs a good mother figure this time :-D
But once Sephiroth brought in Cloud's most precious things, he switched gears. Or, interestingly perhaps, once he realized that Sephiroth didn't know what that most precious thing was...
It did seem a pretty redundant question didn't it? You'd think Sephiroth, who'd spent a great deal of time pestering Cloud, would know that of course he treasures his mates the most.
Sephiroth at Lifestream: Okay, fine, I won't taunt him about his precious little friends next time. (Maybe he won't set omnislash on me if I leave this touchy topic alone!)
Jenova views Cloud as just another clone, but Sephiroth has reason to know otherwise. It's one of the few sticking points I can see between them, really
He certainly treated Cloud as an individual, and did not mention the P-word once during their confrontation in AC :-P Also, he did seem to be focusing much more on Cloud (long time no see! You got strong why! I've been thinking about what to give you as a gift! Kneel and beg! Would you let me take your most precious from you!) than his own grand scheme. Hmmm, I wonder why I ever considered the man oh-so-smexy-and-sophisticated, when he basically talks like a 10-year-old!
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That's because the AC plot was pretty but it didn't make much sense. XD
Maybe what he meant was, the planet needed to "die" before he could use it as a spaceship 0.o ?
I took it as Sephiroth gaining control of Lifestream. Lifesteam is basically made up of the bits and pieces of people's souls, and Sephiroth, through the SHT, was turning them against the Planet and would then be able to take control of the planet and live out his dreams of being a spaceman.
I think Geostigma is just another sign that the Planet really cared mostly about, well, the Planet and screw the pesky humans who kept messing things up. That's why when the Weapons were unleashed, they wandered around attacking random towns instead of going off and stopping Meteor.
Agreed. But that might be the reaction of someone who has just been shot down. XD
In other words, the climax of AC:
Sephiroth: *flirt*
Cloud: *fight*
Sephiroth: *flirt*
Cloud: *fight*
Sephiroth: *flirty stabbity*
Cloud: ...Pathetic.
Sephiroth: !!!
It did seem a pretty redundant question didn't it? You'd think Sephiroth, who'd spent a great deal of time pestering Cloud, would know that of course he treasures his mates the most.
I get the impression that Sephiroth doesn't know Cloud at all, but he thinks that he does. It's almost like he's got this image of Cloud in his mind, and he spent the first half of the game trying to shove him into it. Now that Cloud's definately broken free of that mold, Sephiroth doesn't really know how to deal with him.
He certainly treated Cloud as an individual, and did not mention the P-word once during their confrontation in AC :-P Also, he did seem to be focusing much more on Cloud (long time no see! You got strong why! I've been thinking about what to give you as a gift! Kneel and beg! Would you let me take your most precious from you!) than his own grand scheme. Hmmm, I wonder why I ever considered the man oh-so-smexy-and-sophisticated, when he basically talks like a 10-year-old!
XDXDXDXD The allure of the Sephiroth is quite easy to understand... When he keeps his mouth shut.
I think Cloud fascinates him, and that he's probably a bit surprised by the depth of that fascination. It's like a line in the Lymond Chronicles, where Gabriel asks of Lymond "Why, of all people, are you not my slave?" Which is really hard to explain if you've not read the LC, but the sort of posessive curiousity Sephiroth has there, really works for me.
It kinda makes me wonder, if Sephiroth had the choice between Cloud and riding the Spaceship Planet, which he'd actually go for.
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Fair enough, I'll take your interpretation as the truth! So Sephiroth did mean to put his evil plan in action, or he did before he saw Cloud and forgot about everything else :-P
That's why when the Weapons were unleashed, they wandered around attacking random towns instead of going off and stopping Meteor.
I actually like that idea a lot better, than say a human-loving planet, there's just no reason for it to be kind to men, who are basically like pests :-D
Cloud: ...Pathetic.
Sephiroth: !!!
<3333 So much love for this X-DDD
The Sephiroth in my mind is quickly changing to a clueless, sulky *brat* whose smexy body totally outgrew him and who really just needs either a) a better mother figure, b) a hug from Cloud or c) a few sessions with a good shrink to become a better person. Or at least a saner person X-D
I get the impression that Sephiroth doesn't know Cloud at all, but he thinks that he does.
What did Sephiroth think of Cloud? That he was mentally a weak person? That he didn't have a mind of his own? Or was that how Sephiroth thought of human beings (other than himself) in general?
Sephiroth doesn't really know how to deal with him.
He could always just kill him, the stupid boy-man really doesn't even know what he himself wants very well ^^;;;
Oh quick question! You've described Sephiroth and Cloud's interactions in the game as 'mutually obsessed', I could kind of guess on Sephiroth's part it was because he enjoyed manipulating Cloud into doing things he could've easily done by himself, but what about Cloud's part? Oh and, how did Sephiroth treat the rest of Avalanche? Did Sephiroth/anyone other than Cloud, Zack or Aerith have *any* basis at all? Also, wouldn't Vincent have some sort of mixed feelings for Sephiroth since he was in love with Sephiroth's mom? Er sorry I did say it was gonna be a "quick question" ^^;;;
It kinda makes me wonder, if Sephiroth had the choice between Cloud and riding the Spaceship Planet, which he'd actually go for.
Cloud: Alright! If I promise to be with you, would you give your stupid plans a rest?!
Sephiroth: (blush) Huh?! W..what... you... I... I've no idea what the hell you are talking about!
It is true though, AC!Sephiroth really didn't seem like he cared all that much about Spaceship planet or whatnot. I am yet to comprehend his meaning behind "... I won't become a memory", and his almost tender expressions as he said those words. Nomura said actions and facial expressions were more important in AC than actual speech, which were sparse... so I thought Sephiroth's parting line and the way he delivered it was very significant :P
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