I am assuming the INFP is divorcing someone else and not you right? :(
INFPs can sometimes be a bit romantic in their expectations of relationships. If things go badly they are very hard on themselves and hard on others. He may still be recovering from this.
Even though INTPs and INFPs only differ by one letter, they are pretty much opposite sides of the spectrum. (Look at cognitive process links below.) My sister is an INTP and she often says that the way I (an INFP) proceed in life seems like "witchcraft" to her. INFPs see life as non-linear while most INTPs want a more linear life. She is amazed by INFP resilence and creativity, but sometimes angered by our unpredictability. I see her as a steady, reliable, and good worker. I value her different insights and POVs. Sometimes I have trouble with her need to do things the same way and her preference for the "same-old things". When she becomes moody, I become annoyed by her shutting me out and avoiding me (ex: her not picking up the phone or reading my text or email for days). As INFPs when we know we have done something wrong, we apologize profusely...right away. That often seems to INTP to be "fake" or not heart-felt because it came so easy. My sister and I get along but we have good days and bad days. I think any pairing can work with enough love and understanding but some pairings have it easier.
The way INTP/FJ vs INFP/TJ handle conflict is different. TP/FJ will rely on social convention in hopes that you will comply because they harmonize with groups (at that day-to-day chit-chat level) strongly (even if you are intovert) while FP/TJ will usually ignore social convention (sometimes on purpose, but other times because they don't know any better). I also mentioned a long time ago, that TP/FJ create a "fluffy or puffy barrier" around themselves when they don't want to be reached/touched, but FP/TJ will barrier themselves with "spikes". What I mean is that a TP/FJ will get all vague and avoidant but usually polite, holding you at arm's length approach to say dealing with unreturned affection. An INFP will after trying to be polite, just be like "NO!!" even if it is seen as rude. They get an undeserved reputation for being "full of drama" because they usually cannot be coerced into something.
That being said, it would be good for you to be very patient with your INFP, wait him out of his shell. Talk to him out loud, engage him in conversation, not just on paper even though we do love thoughts on paper/email/text. I know you guys are stronger at Introverted Thinking so I'm suggesting you use your shadow to talk to him. INFPs have trouble resisting conversations about ethics and morality type stuff as long as content is external and non-critical to them.
Good luck! I hope this helps!
Sorry i am reposting this twice because the community marked my first post as spam. I am thinking it is because i put links in it? I removed links this time.
yes, he's divorcing someone else. we met after they separated and were in the process of divorcing and the whole thing has been slow to develop partly also because of my reluctance to end up as a rebound girl and trying to keep things slow. despite my better judgement i do slowly slowly probably start to fall for him
it's a very strange and new situation for me and i'm learning everyday about myself and about him and how to deal. i do want to make this work and i want to understand him also because i need to control my own feelings that seem to really spill over sometimes
anyway thank you lots for your input. i'm pretty new at this and it's a little confusing to interpret everything. thank you for the links
so on the first look we seem similar, with him being more intuitive than me apart from the obvious difference in feeling vs thinking. i also seem to perceive more hmm
i am trying to be very patient with him and it's been a constant exercise. sometimes it;s not a problem at all and i enjoy the pace but it's harder to deal with his shutting down. or maybe i should also stop being afraid of speaking about my own feelings. i don't think a good relationship is based of people being afraid to share things with each other in order to not bother them. sometimes people who love you want to be bothered and there for you even if they might hurt a little
heh
sorry, it's all very new to me and i used to be very calculated and methodical and controlled and nowadays i am overcome by a lot of feelings and it's hard to deal with them and filter them out and see which ones are rational and which irrational etc etc
what do you mean by social convention in regards to conflict? that intps are more likely to behave politely or react in a way that is socially acceptable while infps not so much? i don't think i understand :P can you give an example?
also my shadow? what is that?
i will read the cognitive processes links tomorrow thank you
I totally stole these from the website but the whole letter breakdown is misleading which is why the cognitive process is a better way to sort what is going on.
INTP - Pattern of Processes
THE PRIMARY PROCESSES
1. Leading - Introverted Thinking - Analyzing, categorizing, and evaluating according to principles 2. Supporting - Extraverted iNtuiting -Interpreting situations and relationships and pickup meanings and interconnections to other contexts 3. Relief -Introverted Sensing -Reviewing and recalling past experiences and seeking detailed data 4. Aspirational - Extraverted Feeling - Connecting and considering others and the group
THE SHADOW PROCESSES
5. Opposing- Extraverted Thinking - Segmenting, organizing for efficiency, and systematizing 6. Critical Parent -Introverted iNtuiting - Foreseeing implications, transformations, and likely effects 7. Deceiving -Extraverted Sensing -Experiencing and acting in the immediate context. 8. Devilish - Introverted Feeling - Valuing and considering importance, beliefs, and worth
1.) Leading - Introverted Feeling - Valuing and considering importance, beliefs, and worth 2.) Supporting - Extraverted iNtuiting - Interpreting situations and relationships and pickup meanings and interconnections to other contexts 3.) Relief - Introverted Sensing - Reviewing and recalling past experiences and seeking detailed data 4.) Aspirational - Extraverted Thinking Segmenting, organizing for efficiency, and systematizing
THE SHADOW PROCESSES
5.) Opposing - Extraverted Feeling Connecting and considering others and the group 6.) Critical Parent - Introverted iNtuiting Foreseeing implications, transformations, and likely effects 7.) Deceiving - Extraverted Sensing Experiencing and acting in the immediate context. 8.) Devilish - Introverted Thinking Analyzing, categorizing, and evaluating according to principles
So numbers 1-2 are what your strengths are. For INTP it's introverted thinking and for INFP it's introverted feeling. #2 is the same for both INFP and INTP. They represent what you naturally can do with little effort, all day long, easily. #3 & 4 are what you practice at to become better and eventually use pretty well. They aren't as natural as 1 and 2 but you can get good at it. INTP and INFP share #3.
#5-8 are the shadows. They are parts of you that if you do not integrate or know well, can invoke terror in you when you see it in others or can just crap on your life. Most people in life will never have complete mastery of all 8. Most people never master past 4 or 5. Notice #8 is called Devilish with good reason: when ill aspected, this person will irritate the crap out of you with this skill. So it's not unusal INTP and INFP will get on each other's nerves doing something the other things is odd or out of sync because each of your #1 is the other person's #8. Conducted in harmony this means you each have something complementary and beneficial!
So when I say use your shadow what I am referring to is to use Extraverted Feeling and Extraverted Thinking when you meet with one another because INTP & INFP are roughly on the same level for those 2 so you will meet in the middle. Neither one of you will be great at it, but it could work. For an INFP to think quietly and hold to themselves their analyses is using #8, his worst skill. It kills him to use this but it's easy for you.
If you google some videos on INFP vs. like INFJ you will see some hilarious ones. There is one where an INFP guy starts putting his dirty shoes/feet on a white couch without checking with anyone, but the INFJ checks to make sure it's ok. I can't seem to post links so i can't put them up here. But basically the social interaction thing: Say you invite an INFP friend you just met to a party, they attended. The social expectation in many areas (depends where you live) is that when the INFP throws a party he/she will invite you to theirs. The INFP may or may not follow that social expectation depending on if they had a good time or not or whatever. An INTP, if they actually attended, even if they didn't really like you all that much, will still invite you to their party but they will hope/pray you don't actually come. An INTP will normally avoid social oblligations which is how they get out of social expectations, by picking and choosing. My sister has a pathological fear of "oweing someone something". As an INFP I have no idea why because we don't have that. We keep our word when pressed and that is good enough.
and honestly, i cannot figure people out. it's another reason why you stop trying to please them all the time because it seems like you bloody can't. i often wish there was a guide to what people expect because half the time i think i offend without meaning to. but many other times, i think it has A LOT to do with other people's insecurities and I don't really get that stuff either.
oh yes! a guide for dealing with people would be golden! The book would look like a flow chart! :) I definitely still need this, but it used to be so much harder when I was a kid.
My interpretation. It may be unwelcome and if it is, I apologize.
70 is a very high number. 80 is extremely rare to the point of probably being diagnosed with something. I'm guessing most people make a 50 to 65 on any letter. Naturally I have no data to back this up, so again, my opinion. (I scored like 70 on the I and I get burnt out from social stuff...) Making a 90 sounds more like he's recovering from something... and from what you said, he is.
Since his N (abstract side) is on full throttle, besides everyone else's suggestions, he might find reading philosophical commentaries, scientific theory, or poetry having a balancing effect. At least I do. Depending on how both of you interpret the idea, I would suggest taking a break from each other sometimes. This is not because you want to leave, but because if you both agree that you are afraid of hurting each other, time would give an idea of whether you can face that fear a little at a time.
My INTP side needs time to let it out when I'm upset, from what I can tell. My INFP side needs time to examine and reintegrate my upset. Writing letters was suggested as a possible way to communicate. Between two I's, this cannot be dismissed as a bad idea. Writing is attractive to I's in that writing requires reflection and not the blow-by-blow interaction that talking requires, especially under stress. That fact must be mentioned as well, though.
I hope very much that this goes well for you. You're going through all this trouble to do this... that shows how serious you are.
INFPs can sometimes be a bit romantic in their expectations of relationships. If things go badly they are very hard on themselves and hard on others. He may still be recovering from this.
Even though INTPs and INFPs only differ by one letter, they are pretty much opposite sides of the spectrum. (Look at cognitive process links below.) My sister is an INTP and she often says that the way I (an INFP) proceed in life seems like "witchcraft" to her. INFPs see life as non-linear while most INTPs want a more linear life. She is amazed by INFP resilence and creativity, but sometimes angered by our unpredictability. I see her as a steady, reliable, and good worker. I value her different insights and POVs. Sometimes I have trouble with her need to do things the same way and her preference for the "same-old things". When she becomes moody, I become annoyed by her shutting me out and avoiding me (ex: her not picking up the phone or reading my text or email for days). As INFPs when we know we have done something wrong, we apologize profusely...right away. That often seems to INTP to be "fake" or not heart-felt because it came so easy. My sister and I get along but we have good days and bad days. I think any pairing can work with enough love and understanding but some pairings have it easier.
The way INTP/FJ vs INFP/TJ handle conflict is different. TP/FJ will rely on social convention in hopes that you will comply because they harmonize with groups (at that day-to-day chit-chat level) strongly (even if you are intovert) while FP/TJ will usually ignore social convention (sometimes on purpose, but other times because they don't know any better). I also mentioned a long time ago, that TP/FJ create a "fluffy or puffy barrier" around themselves when they don't want to be reached/touched, but FP/TJ will barrier themselves with "spikes". What I mean is that a TP/FJ will get all vague and avoidant but usually polite, holding you at arm's length approach to say dealing with unreturned affection. An INFP will after trying to be polite, just be like "NO!!" even if it is seen as rude. They get an undeserved reputation for being "full of drama" because they usually cannot be coerced into something.
That being said, it would be good for you to be very patient with your INFP, wait him out of his shell. Talk to him out loud, engage him in conversation, not just on paper even though we do love thoughts on paper/email/text. I know you guys are stronger at Introverted Thinking so I'm suggesting you use your shadow to talk to him. INFPs have trouble resisting conversations about ethics and morality type stuff as long as content is external and non-critical to them.
Good luck! I hope this helps!
Sorry i am reposting this twice because the community marked my first post as spam. I am thinking it is because i put links in it? I removed links this time.
Reply
Here are the cognitive processes I was talking about:
cognitiveprocesses dawt com/16Types/INTP dawt cfm
cognitiveprocesses dawt com/16Types/INFP dawt cfm
Good luck! I hope this helps!
Reply
Ugh, never would've have worded this in such a way, but 100% true.
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it's a very strange and new situation for me and i'm learning everyday about myself and about him and how to deal. i do want to make this work and i want to understand him also because i need to control my own feelings that seem to really spill over sometimes
anyway thank you lots for your input. i'm pretty new at this and it's a little confusing to interpret everything. thank you for the links
our stats are
him
introverted 68
intuition 95
feeling 68
perceiving 63
me
introverted 58
intuition 63
thinking 58
perceiving 74
so on the first look we seem similar, with him being more intuitive than me apart from the obvious difference in feeling vs thinking. i also seem to perceive more hmm
i am trying to be very patient with him and it's been a constant exercise. sometimes it;s not a problem at all and i enjoy the pace but it's harder to deal with his shutting down. or maybe i should also stop being afraid of speaking about my own feelings. i don't think a good relationship is based of people being afraid to share things with each other in order to not bother them. sometimes people who love you want to be bothered and there for you even if they might hurt a little
heh
sorry, it's all very new to me and i used to be very calculated and methodical and controlled and nowadays i am overcome by a lot of feelings and it's hard to deal with them and filter them out and see which ones are rational and which irrational etc etc
what do you mean by social convention in regards to conflict? that intps are more likely to behave politely or react in a way that is socially acceptable while infps not so much? i don't think i understand :P can you give an example?
also my shadow? what is that?
i will read the cognitive processes links tomorrow thank you
Reply
INTP - Pattern of Processes
THE PRIMARY PROCESSES
1. Leading - Introverted Thinking - Analyzing, categorizing, and evaluating according to principles
2. Supporting - Extraverted iNtuiting -Interpreting situations and relationships and pickup meanings and interconnections to other contexts
3. Relief -Introverted Sensing -Reviewing and recalling past experiences and seeking detailed data
4. Aspirational - Extraverted Feeling - Connecting and considering others and the group
THE SHADOW PROCESSES
5. Opposing- Extraverted Thinking - Segmenting, organizing for efficiency, and systematizing
6. Critical Parent -Introverted iNtuiting - Foreseeing implications, transformations, and likely effects
7. Deceiving -Extraverted Sensing -Experiencing and acting in the immediate context.
8. Devilish - Introverted Feeling - Valuing and considering importance, beliefs, and worth
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compare to INFP
INFP - Pattern of Processes
THE PRIMARY PROCESSES
1.) Leading - Introverted Feeling - Valuing and considering importance, beliefs, and worth
2.) Supporting - Extraverted iNtuiting - Interpreting situations and relationships and pickup meanings and interconnections to other contexts
3.) Relief - Introverted Sensing - Reviewing and recalling past experiences and seeking detailed data
4.) Aspirational - Extraverted Thinking Segmenting, organizing for efficiency, and systematizing
THE SHADOW PROCESSES
5.) Opposing - Extraverted Feeling Connecting and considering others and the group
6.) Critical Parent - Introverted iNtuiting Foreseeing implications, transformations, and likely effects
7.) Deceiving - Extraverted Sensing Experiencing and acting in the immediate context.
8.) Devilish - Introverted Thinking Analyzing, categorizing, and evaluating according to principles
So numbers 1-2 are what your strengths are. For INTP it's introverted thinking and for INFP it's introverted feeling. #2 is the same for both INFP and INTP. They represent what you naturally can do with little effort, all day long, easily.
#3 & 4 are what you practice at to become better and eventually use pretty well. They aren't as natural as 1 and 2 but you can get good at it. INTP and INFP share #3.
#5-8 are the shadows. They are parts of you that if you do not integrate or know well, can invoke terror in you when you see it in others or can just crap on your life. Most people in life will never have complete mastery of all 8. Most people never master past 4 or 5. Notice #8 is called Devilish with good reason: when ill aspected, this person will irritate the crap out of you with this skill. So it's not unusal INTP and INFP will get on each other's nerves doing something the other things is odd or out of sync because each of your #1 is the other person's #8. Conducted in harmony this means you each have something complementary and beneficial!
So when I say use your shadow what I am referring to is to use Extraverted Feeling and Extraverted Thinking when you meet with one another because INTP & INFP are roughly on the same level for those 2 so you will meet in the middle. Neither one of you will be great at it, but it could work. For an INFP to think quietly and hold to themselves their analyses is using #8, his worst skill. It kills him to use this but it's easy for you.
If you google some videos on INFP vs. like INFJ you will see some hilarious ones. There is one where an INFP guy starts putting his dirty shoes/feet on a white couch without checking with anyone, but the INFJ checks to make sure it's ok. I can't seem to post links so i can't put them up here. But basically the social interaction thing: Say you invite an INFP friend you just met to a party, they attended. The social expectation in many areas (depends where you live) is that when the INFP throws a party he/she will invite you to theirs. The INFP may or may not follow that social expectation depending on if they had a good time or not or whatever. An INTP, if they actually attended, even if they didn't really like you all that much, will still invite you to their party but they will hope/pray you don't actually come. An INTP will normally avoid social oblligations which is how they get out of social expectations, by picking and choosing. My sister has a pathological fear of "oweing someone something". As an INFP I have no idea why because we don't have that. We keep our word when pressed and that is good enough.
Reply
and honestly, i cannot figure people out. it's another reason why you stop trying to please them all the time because it seems like you bloody can't. i often wish there was a guide to what people expect because half the time i think i offend without meaning to. but many other times, i think it has A LOT to do with other people's insecurities and I don't really get that stuff either.
Reply
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70 is a very high number. 80 is extremely rare to the point of probably being diagnosed with something. I'm guessing most people make a 50 to 65 on any letter. Naturally I have no data to back this up, so again, my opinion. (I scored like 70 on the I and I get burnt out from social stuff...) Making a 90 sounds more like he's recovering from something... and from what you said, he is.
Since his N (abstract side) is on full throttle, besides everyone else's suggestions, he might find reading philosophical commentaries, scientific theory, or poetry having a balancing effect. At least I do. Depending on how both of you interpret the idea, I would suggest taking a break from each other sometimes. This is not because you want to leave, but because if you both agree that you are afraid of hurting each other, time would give an idea of whether you can face that fear a little at a time.
My INTP side needs time to let it out when I'm upset, from what I can tell. My INFP side needs time to examine and reintegrate my upset. Writing letters was suggested as a possible way to communicate. Between two I's, this cannot be dismissed as a bad idea. Writing is attractive to I's in that writing requires reflection and not the blow-by-blow interaction that talking requires, especially under stress. That fact must be mentioned as well, though.
I hope very much that this goes well for you. You're going through all this trouble to do this... that shows how serious you are.
Reply
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