Classic racism
AN OPEN LETTER TO GATORGRRRL
[In all the years that I've been on LJ and now on DW, I've never posted about things going on in other journals. I've never even left comments to original posts. But since comments are frozen on the original post, and I feel I cannot let this one pass without comment, I'm making a post here. So here goes.]
I'm a Nigerian ( Read more... )
[In all the years that I've been on LJ and now on DW, I've never posted about things going on in other journals. I've never even left comments to original posts. But since comments are frozen on the original post, and I feel I cannot let this one pass without comment, I'm making a post here. So here goes.]
I'm a Nigerian ( Read more... )
Egads. For all of these issues you've listed--never mind the poor taste of setting a slash fandom fic amidst a real life disaster that has nothing to do with the fandom--it was bad enough until you got to the cat with the large paws and Animal Planet and OMG. *jaw drops*
I was thinking that this actually followed along with what you said about not considering Abraham a real person--which, while fictional, in the context of the story, he was real. I know people who have named their cats after celebrities and LOTR characters--but really, unless you know them personally, a celebrity is just a character, too. But I'm not going to name my dog or my bird after my mom or my best friend--in fact, when we named our dog Gina, we made sure none of our neighbors had that name.
But honestly, it wasn't the name so much that pushed it over, but the description. Augh.
She's taken the fic down now, and written another post about it. Don't know if you've seen that. I think that's the best thing for everyone.
But I'll tell you how it feels, because I'm sure you really do wonder. It feels just like being another human being on this planet. Shitty, cranky, happy, callous, thoughtful, selfish, tired, bored, manipulative, grateful, fill in the blank. Just fucking write people. I mean, the fact that this has to be explained...
As a separate issue from this scary fic, I have to say that this excellent advice from you is not what white writers often hear when trying to write "non-white" characters. It's often been said that white writers should never attempt to write for people of color because they don't "get it" and can't portray the unique experiences of people they can never possibly understand.
I think that's why I always liked sci-fi and fantasy, because it was always more about the people and the story and not about hey, let's talk about how you're less because you're a woman or unusual because you're Japanese--it was about how this giant flaming rock is going to consume the planet and we all have to work together to save ourselves. *G*
I don't know, I'm getting off tangent now, so I'll shut up. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us, although hearing about elements of this fic requires some brain-scrubbing now...gah.
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I've heard that argument, and thought it was wrong, but as a white girl with a fair bit of fandom-related paranoia was absolutely terrified to argue against the point. I will do better when I encounter it in the future.
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I'll speak plainly here. I believe that this mentality, where it exists, has come about because a lot of people of color (I don't like that term but it's the current phrase so I'll use it) feel that on a planet where whites have historically placed themselves at the top of a pinnacle, they sure as hell don't want to see them attempting to write others.
To be constantly held up against this one particular color of people and then watch them attempt to write your life? There's a sense of "don't do me any favors" about it.
Therefore I don't think it's from a fact that whites can't in fact write people of other races, I just think no one wants to bother having to "educate" the perps, as it were.
But this, I believe, is in relation to writing people of color in specific contexts relating to certain social issues. Meaning, if I had to write a story about the difficulties of a Mexican family trying to immigrate to the US today, I would have to "get it."
Whereas if I wanted to write, say, a story set in modern Haiti after an earthquake -- bearing in mind I come from a different hemisphere of the world and know next to nothing about Haitians or their culture beyond what I can read on Wikipedia -- I would feel perfectly comfortable writing that, because I would simply write people suffering in the aftermath of a disaster. I can imagine that.
So here's what I would advice about "getting it":
- Imagine you wake up one morning and walk outside and pretty much everywhere you look people are giving you hostile looks. You don't know these individuals and you've never said a word to them. But wherever you walk into you feel hostility, disdain, threat. Or if not that, they're simply ignoring you half the time, as though you're walking around with an invisibility cloak. They cringe at the way you talk or try to communicate if their language is not your first language. They look at you with a slight crinkle to their noses. When you see yourself on TV it's always a caricature.
90% of the time would you have faith enough in humanity to want to leave the house? If you're not depressed would it be teeth clenching anger for hours on end before you could let it go? Or would you grow a thick layer of skin and work not to let it bother you?
Well, when it comes time to write a character of color, and if you feel your story calls for this type of layer to the character's arc, then think about the stuff above and write how it makes you feel.
If your character, however, is just some college student trying to deal with early morning classes and a newfound party habit while trying to maintain a B+ average, then just have her have the experiences of your average college kid. (Mind you, this is where culture related research comes in because if she's Nigerian then she also has to have a lingering fear of death-by-parents for having a B+ average instead of coming up with the mythic A. :p)
Not allowing the college girl to have a non issue-filled life is the daily transgression of TV shows and movies. White characters have lives -- they go to the movies, have fun -- non-white characters have "issues" (social issues).
But the truth is, those "issues" are what people in society bring to you when you step outside of your house, for no reason except the color of your skin. We don't walk around thinking, ugh, I'm so oppressed. You're just minding your business and then you come to LJ and see someone trying to turn you into a pet cat. That's why a lot of people of color say don't bother.
But I don't think "getting it" and applying it right are really that herculean of a task. It's just a matter of wanting to.
Anyway, that's my take on the whole thing. I hope it helps. Cuz writing is awesome and more people should do it.
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people of color (I don't like that term but it's the current phrase so I'll use it)
It's constantly changing, as no one can ever agree on what's offensive and what isn't. May I ask what term you would prefer?
Some stuff, like the fic in the original post, is blatant in its offensiveness. But the more I've learned over the years, the more I see the not-so-blatant stuff. It's like the first time you sit down and watch what you would have previously considered G-rated TV--with a child. And suddenly you see all the innuendo, profanity, and violence that you never noticed were there before. That's why posts like this are good, because it helps open people's eyes to things outside their own experience. We all have blinders on, whether we know it or not.
I love you to bits, as ever. *squishes* And I hear you on the B+ average...lol.
P.S. Have you been getting my emails? Nothing important at all, but I just wondered if you were using a different addy than the one I have. Just wanted to send you smooches every once in a while, no biggie. I hope things are going okay with you.
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Honestly, I don't have terms I prefer. I just find "people of color" to be: well, there are white people, and then there's the rest of the world (when clearly white people are also people of a particular color).
It makes it seem as though "people of color" are one homogenous race while whites are another.
The problem, however, is that a lot of these discussions that blow up are to do with whites vs. the rest of the "non-white" world so the dialogue always has to be framed in those terms.
I think in discussion, saying "people of different races" instead of staying "PoC" opens up the mind to the idea that this is simply not about whites "and the rest of a non-white world," this is about whites still trying to exclude themselves from the concept of bring part of the whole spectrum of the human race.
If I was white in this day and age I would have to ask myself, no matter what I'd been told being white does for me (look at the poverty-stricken yeoman farmers of the American South who were told slavery works for them too): Do I want that?
I mean, it's like there's a party going on and you're not invited.
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Thank you for all of your brilliance in these posts, as ever. You keep making all of my rusty brain cells work, that's so mean of you. :)
(when clearly white people are also people of a particular color).
This reminds me of one of our first conversations about race, though I didn't realize it at the time...lol:
http://perseph2hades.livejournal.com/67802.html?thread=2464730#t2464730
Hee! I found that post right away, but just spent 2 hours because I thought our convo was in an Orlando/chair post and not an Eric/chair post...turns out it was an Orlando/chair comment in an Eric/chair post--so confused...lol. It was fun reliving all the pervy fun we had, though! xoxo
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So I guess my question is whether you have literally seen people of colour saying "don't write characters of colour if you're white".
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I do agree with what you're saying, though, that sometimes a mere criticism of "hey, maybe you should have had this character doing x instead of y" is interpreted as "this fic sucks and you never should have written it!" It's people's natural tendency to overreact, (and as a writer I know I've overreacted to any type of criticism of my own work in the past), but it's true that it's not helpful to the discussion.
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Yes, I have seen critics of these writers say it outright. It was in regards to situations other than this one, in one fandom story and one non-fandom book,
The thing about non-fandom books is that they're not an unlimited resource. Fanfiction publishing is unlimited-- meaning, everybody can post as many stories as they want. Non-fannish publishing is limited. There are only so many "spots" available. It's *not* fair if, just for example, a Chinese-American author writes a fantasy novel based on her own cultural heritage, and is told by the publisher, "Oh, we already have our 'exotic fantasy' for the year, with a Chinese ninja heroine, written by a white person. Try again next year, sorry." (Yes, I know ninjas aren't Chinese, that's kind of the point.)
However, this is not the same as saying "white people should never include PoC in their stories." What people are saying, what I bet you would *find* them saying if you went back to those direct quotes, is that white people should not tell other people's stories *for them*, because basically we have been doing that for the last couple of hundred years already.
This has struck me especially, lately-- I have a baby niece and I've been buying her lots of storybooks. And when I pick up stories that are folktales and legends, specifically, I've been trying to stick to books that have authors *from that culture*, because I want to support people telling their own stories -- and you wouldn't believe how hard it is to *find* people actually telling their own stories. They're almost completely drowned out by "lalala I adapted this from a story I heard this one time and isn't it Exotic and Colorful?" Ugh.
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And, therefore, a white person with a long history of American ancestors can only write stories about white people in Connecticut and then just "include people of color" in their stories to make it more multi-cultural?
Writing is about imagination and empathy, so while I understand frustrations about having your own culture interpreted--or misinterpreted--by others, sometimes people may surprise you. A lot of TV shows and books geared towards women have male writers. Sometimes they get it horrifically wrong and their sexist views show through--but sometimes they tell some beautiful and very accurate stories. I would never want to say that no man should ever write about women, because there's a lot of great fiction that would have been lost that way.
Of course I also don't think *only* men should be able to write about women. I just can't think of a feasible way for a publishing house to work by denying all books that aren't written by the appropriate person--and then waiting for that appropriate person to possibly write about the same thing. If the work is good, it should get published, regardless of who wrote it.
I want to be clear that I understand your point. I just don't like absolutes in writing that say you're not allowed to write certain things. Writing, like all art, should be about expression and not about imposed limitations.
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So you're saying, in other words, "write what you know". If you find any story or concept or culture other than your own interesting or worthy of sharing with the world, then too bad. Someone else more qualified *might* want to write that story.
Number one, there's a difference between writing ABOUT someone and writing *their story*. As a cisgender person, there's a difference between (a) writing a novel about my life with a trans person as a supporting character in it, and having the heroine think about this stuff in the way that I think about it, which is just a realistic reflection of my life, and (b) writing from the POV of a trans person about What It's Like To Be Trans because I totally read a magazine article once and I want to "share" this experience with the world because I think it's totally "interesting".
Number two, some people have a really hard time understanding that just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD. Honestly, saying "what if I want to share someone else's story" comes across to me as unbelievably arrogant. I've never actually heard a person of color saying "Gee, I really wish some white person would come take *my* story and tell it *their* way and make tons of money off it." If someone wants to share their story, *they will*. They don't need a white person to come in and do it for them.
Number three, I think maybe you're not really grasping what I'm saying (or what those other people in the past were saying) because you're not seeing this in the long, long, LONG historical context of white people coming in and telling other people's stories for them-- and *those stories* becoming the dominant narrative of What "Those People" Are Really Like-- while actual authentic voices get erased and swept under the carpet and erased. Even worse, when people do try to tell their own stories, they get ignored because now what they're trying to say-- their actual, real, authentic stories as based on their lives-- don't fit into the cliches and stereotypes of what "everybody knows" Those People were/are like! Pocahontas, Indians in Western movies, gangsta rap and blaxsploitation films, the Arabian Nights, Orientalism, all this is just off the top of my head.
And, therefore, a white person with a long history of American ancestors can only write stories about white people in Connecticut and then just "include people of color" in their stories to make it more multi-cultural?
Tell the stories that you know. Write about what you know. Write your truth. Why should you have to take someone else's stuff to make your story more interesting? Why should you have to tell someone else's story to feel like you have something to share? Seriously, you shouldn't have to.
If the work is good, it should get published, regardless of who wrote it.
Define "good." Because if your definition includes "not exploitative, not appropriative," then I agree with you. If it doesn't, then I can't.
I just don't like absolutes in writing that say you're not allowed to write certain things. Writing, like all art, should be about expression and not about imposed limitations.
Again, no one is saying you can't. They're saying you should think about what you're doing, and that you should ask yourself: can I do this respectfully, accurately, without exploiting people, without stepping on them, without treating their culture and their experience like a shiny toy that I can grab and then give away? Am I just doing the same thing white people have been doing for generations, telling other people's stories *for them* and contributing to the giant mass of stereotype and misrepresentation?
Again. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
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