The Rumble in the Air-Conditioned Auditorium
I was one of the fortunate people who didn't have much trouble watching The Rumble in the Air-Conditioned Auditorium. It froze very briefly a couple of times but that was about it. I wasn't surprised to hear there were problems though, that seems to be the nature of the thing.
I think Jon clearly had the better arguments, but I suspect it's a case of people who were fans of either Jon or Bill thought that their guy won. It wasn't as clear cut as the presidential debates.
Jon did have one pretty embarrassing mistake though. He confused the debt and the deficit which a lot of people do, but I would expect someone of Jon's intelligence to know that the surplus Bill Clinton ran was year to year, not that we'd paid off our entire debt and had money left over.
Memo to Bill: Sandra Fluke never asked the government to pay for her birth control. And under Obamacare, the government still isn't paying for her birth control, her insurance plan is. The argument she was originally trying to make was that she had a friend who needed birth control for medical reasons entirely separate from not wanting to get pregnant but her insurance company wouldn't cover it and she couldn't afford it so medical complications ensued.
Second point, which is cheaper, birth control for years, or the birth of a child? Hint: It's the first one. But even though free market types will argue that of course insurance companies will not be pennywise and pound foolish they miss how insurance companies think which is that just because you're a customer now doesn't mean you'll be a customer next year. So yeah, they could pay for preventative medicine that will stop or delay the need for a huge expensive treatment but if that huge expensive treatment is 5 years down the road it may not be their problem whereas paying for preventative medication now is very much their problem. So they game that you won't be covered by them in 5 years. Insurance companies don't exist to give you good medical care, they exist to make money.
I also liked Jon's argument about disability insurance and I wish he'd pressed Bill more on the point. Bill's father retired from his company on disability because he developed Colitis. His company happened to offer disability insurance. But what if you work for a company that doesn't offer disability insurance and you develop Colitis?
Jon's argument about the doubled number of people on disability wasn't as strong as it might have been. He does have a point that as people age (Baby Boomers, I'm looking at you) more will become disabled with age related complaints and so yes, some of the increase is accounted for there.
But I think my dad's right. We're seeing more people on disability because the economy sucks. They worked while disabled because they had a job, when they get laid off and can't find a job and are disabled, they apply for disability. (Note, I'm talking about partial disability and not total disability).
This EW Poll has what they consider the "top 10" lines of the night.
I did particularly like #5.
“Why is it that if you take advantage of a tax break, you’re a smart businessman, but if you take advantage of something [he was referencing food stamps] you need to not be hungry, you’re a moocher?” -An especially exasperated Stewart, in one of his biggest applause lines of the evening.
I've really wanted Romney to answer that one. Why is it that if he takes all the tax deductions he can possibly take he's an astute guy, but if you're one of the 47% of people who don't pay taxes, also because you are presumably taking the exemptions/deductions allowed by law, you "don't take personal responsibility and care for your life?"
I also loved Jon's line about how Bill's viewers were calling Jon's viewers to ask how this streaming thing works.
More seriously, Bill also did the usual, "stop blaming Bush" thing. A) as I'm sure Glenn Greenwald would argue, this is one of the reasons we have to actually, you know, punish people in power who do illegal things. B) Bush's era may be over but that doesn't make it irrelevant. We have to place things in context. (For that matter, I think Clinton bears an awful lot of the blame for repealing Glass-Steagle but escapes notice because the effects didn't hit until long after he was out of office). C) I don't know how long it took America to recover from The Great Depression, but there's general agreement that The Great Recession is the worse economic hit we've had since that time and I'm fairly certain we didn't recover from The Great Depression in 3 years. Or even a decade. And as far as I'm concerned one of the things we did to get out of it was massive government spending and government hiring. We've had some spending, although there's a lot of money that still hasn't been distributed, but we've been cutting government jobs, not hiring more people.
I am quite certain that by the end of the debate the moderator was really feeling for Jim Leher.
The download is still available for purchase (you get a download copy if you paid for the live streaming) and I'd recommend that people watch it. While there are some funny moments, I think both participants took it seriously, Jon perhaps more than Bill.
I like seeing Jon serious like this. I'd like to another debate of this type.
I think Jon clearly had the better arguments, but I suspect it's a case of people who were fans of either Jon or Bill thought that their guy won. It wasn't as clear cut as the presidential debates.
Jon did have one pretty embarrassing mistake though. He confused the debt and the deficit which a lot of people do, but I would expect someone of Jon's intelligence to know that the surplus Bill Clinton ran was year to year, not that we'd paid off our entire debt and had money left over.
Memo to Bill: Sandra Fluke never asked the government to pay for her birth control. And under Obamacare, the government still isn't paying for her birth control, her insurance plan is. The argument she was originally trying to make was that she had a friend who needed birth control for medical reasons entirely separate from not wanting to get pregnant but her insurance company wouldn't cover it and she couldn't afford it so medical complications ensued.
Second point, which is cheaper, birth control for years, or the birth of a child? Hint: It's the first one. But even though free market types will argue that of course insurance companies will not be pennywise and pound foolish they miss how insurance companies think which is that just because you're a customer now doesn't mean you'll be a customer next year. So yeah, they could pay for preventative medicine that will stop or delay the need for a huge expensive treatment but if that huge expensive treatment is 5 years down the road it may not be their problem whereas paying for preventative medication now is very much their problem. So they game that you won't be covered by them in 5 years. Insurance companies don't exist to give you good medical care, they exist to make money.
I also liked Jon's argument about disability insurance and I wish he'd pressed Bill more on the point. Bill's father retired from his company on disability because he developed Colitis. His company happened to offer disability insurance. But what if you work for a company that doesn't offer disability insurance and you develop Colitis?
Jon's argument about the doubled number of people on disability wasn't as strong as it might have been. He does have a point that as people age (Baby Boomers, I'm looking at you) more will become disabled with age related complaints and so yes, some of the increase is accounted for there.
But I think my dad's right. We're seeing more people on disability because the economy sucks. They worked while disabled because they had a job, when they get laid off and can't find a job and are disabled, they apply for disability. (Note, I'm talking about partial disability and not total disability).
This EW Poll has what they consider the "top 10" lines of the night.
I did particularly like #5.
“Why is it that if you take advantage of a tax break, you’re a smart businessman, but if you take advantage of something [he was referencing food stamps] you need to not be hungry, you’re a moocher?” -An especially exasperated Stewart, in one of his biggest applause lines of the evening.
I've really wanted Romney to answer that one. Why is it that if he takes all the tax deductions he can possibly take he's an astute guy, but if you're one of the 47% of people who don't pay taxes, also because you are presumably taking the exemptions/deductions allowed by law, you "don't take personal responsibility and care for your life?"
I also loved Jon's line about how Bill's viewers were calling Jon's viewers to ask how this streaming thing works.
More seriously, Bill also did the usual, "stop blaming Bush" thing. A) as I'm sure Glenn Greenwald would argue, this is one of the reasons we have to actually, you know, punish people in power who do illegal things. B) Bush's era may be over but that doesn't make it irrelevant. We have to place things in context. (For that matter, I think Clinton bears an awful lot of the blame for repealing Glass-Steagle but escapes notice because the effects didn't hit until long after he was out of office). C) I don't know how long it took America to recover from The Great Depression, but there's general agreement that The Great Recession is the worse economic hit we've had since that time and I'm fairly certain we didn't recover from The Great Depression in 3 years. Or even a decade. And as far as I'm concerned one of the things we did to get out of it was massive government spending and government hiring. We've had some spending, although there's a lot of money that still hasn't been distributed, but we've been cutting government jobs, not hiring more people.
I am quite certain that by the end of the debate the moderator was really feeling for Jim Leher.
The download is still available for purchase (you get a download copy if you paid for the live streaming) and I'd recommend that people watch it. While there are some funny moments, I think both participants took it seriously, Jon perhaps more than Bill.
I like seeing Jon serious like this. I'd like to another debate of this type.