Essay: Comparing real history and APH canon of Rome, the Italys, Vatican City and Seborga

[jjblue1]

Okay, since I've heard the new header disappointed some because there's no Romano in it, implying again Rome favoured Veneziano, let's go check real world history and see how it would fit in Hetalia canon. Also, since we’re at it let’s see a bit of Rome’s history, if we can discover when the Italys had birth and which was their relation with Rome

Comments

[seraphoftales]

Ahahahaha oh man, I was trying to figure this out too when I was learning about it in history class.

My theory is Rome's disappearance is actually tied more with the religious changes that came with the onset of Christianity?? Like around the time it started becoming official (read: no longer being persecuted). And then I dated Rome's switch of attention to North Italy around the time the Roman's empire's capital was moved to Ravenna. This was also around the time Veneziano was born.(Romano was born when Rome became Christianized). But physically... Grandpa was probably a term of endearment. Since Rome's relations with Veneziano and Romano is their shared land and peoples and the nations weren't born like babymama then birth, but like cabbage patch kids (for lack of a better metaphor).

The Eastern Empire is throwing me for a loop.

But yeah, it's heavily implied that the nations do have represenations of individual states (see: Japanese prefectures). We can just assume Himaruya didn't want to take that monumental effort into personifying all of them. But yeah, they were probably there.

Note Veneziano is Japanese and if translated I'm fairly sure it means (Venice of) and Himaruya canonly states that the brother's full names are Italy Veneziano so that translate to Venice of Italy. You could do the same to Romano's name.

But so anyways... blargh, it's so hard to reconcile history with hetalian history?? it's doable but there's lots of mental gymnastics to go through.

Also! Germany might've suffered a coma after the fall of HRE. So he may have been born prior to the Teutons. But after Napoleon etc. His growth was physically halted in some weird nation mumbo jumbo. Then his memory was erased of ever having lived before the teutons. Thus rendering him younger than Prussia

[jjblue1]

It's an interesting theory but again it would clash with real history... but I guess the problem is that the basis Himaruya set clashes too much with real history for any theory to work, starting from the Italies' names and going on with the whole of their history.

I guess back then he only had a vague knowledge of Italy's history, who's a real mess because involves so many states each one with its own intricate history not even Italians bother to study them all.

*sighs* One of those days I should write a list of all the things that simply don't fit or are horribly wrong...

I don't really blame him much. I've been trying to create some Italian region-tans but now that I've researched more about Italian regions I realized I should retcon some of them as well... and trust me, I've researched prior to creating them too. *sigh* Italy has a really, really complicate story... -_-

Recently however I've noticed Himaruya-san's being more accurate but still, unless he retcon all of the Italies' past his version of history won't fit with real history. At all.

PS: yes, I know about the meaning of Veneziano and Romano's names.
The problem is again that they wouldn't fit with whom they represent. Rome is in center Italy and was in the Papal State. South Italy would do better being called Napoletano (Italian for 'person from Napoli') or Napolino (if you want to use the same Japanese trick).

For Veneziano is impossible to find the right name as north Italy was made by tons of small states but Veneziano is likely the less fitting as Venice was for most of Italian history a free republic, therefore didn't fit at all with the whole Chibitalia backstory, when Italy was formed during Napoleonic time the capital was Milan, not Venice and when the kingdom of Italy was formed in the Rinascimento the capitals were first Turin, then Florence (which is again in center Italy) and in the end Rome. So at best I would understand if north Italy's name was tied to Milan or Turin but not to Venice.

[seraphoftales]

It is. Italian history really is. Himaruya's whole out take was to greatly summarize history since I doubt he meant anything deep by it. It's like the Spark Notes of Italian History? It explains why there's only two Italies instead of dozens of personified states. I guess he honed in on the North's industrialized / wealthier state as opposed to the South's agricultural focus???

But yeah it is as you say. He will have to retcon it to go deeper into history. But I dont think he really can??

Honestly, sometimes I really feel for the guy. You read his stuff and you get this feeling he never meant for it to get so popular or to be so highly scrutinized. Lol. Ah well.

PS I see. I guess it really is just a surface level thing. The basic points: North Italy was a wealthier state, Italy was a contested land, the legacy of Rome, those are the more or less true stuff. Highly overarching generalizations but if you push deeper and get more specific, the explanation aint gonna hold.

Ah, tell me if I'm mistaken about the generalizations! If that isn't quite holding up either.

[jjblue1]

Most likely in the beginning he wanted to focus on WW2 and make a comic that was for his own amusement only (and of the ones who would come to his blog) so he didn't really thought too deep at how to portray Italy and his past. Now that APH is so popular he's being much more accurate about history and I love him for this.

PS: Hum... it depends on which time you're referring. During the Italian wars south Italy was also a whealty state, north Italy was a huge bunch of states that were already bitching among them and conqueering each other. Think at Italy back then as a small Europe. If you try to generalize the story of Europe as if it was a single entity... well, it gets messy.

[seraphoftales]

I was thinking more along the lines of the 11th to 14th centuries??? Ack, i may be a little off since I dont have my history book in front of me

[jjblue1]

11th & 12th centuries were south's golden age and they signed the moment in which Romano had one of his most loved and amazing kings.
The following years were less good but probably because they were compared to the golden age (also because there were some wars between the Anjou and the Aragon).
According to many, troubles started in 15th century when south became its decadence period due to Spanish control... though it was a slow decadence so it wasn't all of suddently bad.